Latest at Flexjet?

[Praetorian]

So another hypothetical.

CAB (or whatever it's called now): We want more bases, and better first and last day rules.

I think it's so funny you think this "CAB" of yours is going to bargain on your behalf.:laugh:

Oh, and with a first contract it is all take, since you have nothing your management can't take away at the stroke of an email now.

 

[Nolife]

Nolife, I think we agree. But I am pointing out my belief that some guys think it WOULD BE all take and no give if there was a union. If mgmt and employees work together, with or without a union, the company is better off. Right now, there seems to be sentiment that Flex mgmt is not working with the employees. If that sentiment grows, perhaps a union drive will be successful in the future and the seat at the table will be forced upon management.

In my opinion, Management would be wise to give the employees a real voice at the table - to strengthen the company, expand the business, and perhaps bring back some of the 85 sooner rather than later.

I agree with you however I do want more bases so lets form a union.:beer:

 

[netjetwife]

You miss the point of unionizing. It not," I want more bases so lets form a union." The point is to have a seat at the table that management has to respect. I took the liberty of highlighting that because it's spot on! Of course it's a give and take but right now its all take and no give with respect to a few details of the working conditions. And isn't likely too change without the pilots taking the initiative, unfortunately.

BTW... I talked to an options guys last week and he said since the contract was signed management/labor relations have been good.

NJA folks saw the same thing start happening in 2005, with steady progress after the contract was signed. It all goes back to RESPECT, but I don't think it's a matter of having to. It is just a natural by-product of standing up for your rights, showing that you have other skills (such as negotiating) aside from flying the planes, and demonstrating your talent at organizing big projects like a card drive. And that's just the beginning. If you end up with contract directed joint committees then your pilotgroup's abilities can really shine! You can have the reward of directly participating in the projects, programs, decisions etc that affect your career and family life. And enjoy the respect that comes from working with the company as partners.

Regardless of the path you guys choose, I wish you and your families well.
NJW

 

[Dooker]

NJA folks saw the same thing start happening in 2005, with steady progress after the contract was signed. It all goes back to RESPECT, but I don't think it's a matter of having to. It is just a natural by-product of standing up for your rights, showing that you have other skills (such as negotiating) aside from flying the planes, and demonstrating your talent at organizing big projects like a card drive. And that's just the beginning. If you end up with contract directed joint committees then your pilotgroup's abilities can really shine! You can have the reward of directly participating in the projects, programs, decisions etc that affect your career and family life. And enjoy the respect that comes from working with the company as partners.

Regardless of the path you guys choose, I wish you and your families well.
NJW

That all sounds great, but so much work. Is there like a website or an app or something where we can just fill in all the junk we want and then just submit it and then it forms a union for us? Maybe something like Turbotax, except for unions?

If there isn't something like that then somebody should make one. That'd be killer.

 

[netjetwife]

Well unfortunately it's not that easy... But rest assured there are pilots w/leadership skills who will answer when the call goes out. After all we're talking about a group of professionals who are widely viewed as problem solvers with a well-deserved reputation for facing challenges head-on. That further explains why management comes to respect an organized pilotgroup and finds that it is, indeed, not only entirely possible to form a good working relationship with the pilots---but more advantageous to all involved in the long run.

 

[ArtVandalay]

This is a dead pig. Until the top-feeders are gone, there will be no union at flex. The only thing the union would do for us is job protection because I wouldn't see us getting anything better than what we have now as far as other compensations goes. Job protection is huge but, I just don't see it happening. I think if the union had sent us to a vote the last time it was hot and heavy, I think it would have passed but, the union refused to accept a vote until there was a certain percentage. I think that was our last chance of getting one in; however, flexjet has what 650 employees? and the pilot group is roughly 400 of that! That is a LOT of power we could have.

 

[netjetwife]

The reason for the percentage requirement in the past is that a % of the pilotgroup had to vote as a threshold...and all those he did not vote were automatically counted as NO votes. If there was no chance of it passing then funds and man hours weren't spent to send it out. That meant the deck was stacked against the organizing pilots.

That law was recently changed to the much fairer, democratic method---majority rules. And the only NO votes counted now are those that are cast that way. This means that it will now be much easier to vote in a union.

 

[Hung Start]

The reason for the percentage requirement in the past is that a % of the pilotgroup had to vote as a threshold...and all those he did not vote were automatically counted as NO votes. If there was no chance of it passing then funds and man hours weren't spent to send it out. That meant the deck was stacked against the organizing pilots.

That law was recently changed to the much fairer, democratic method---majority rules. And the only NO votes counted now are those that are cast that way. This means that it will now be much easier to vote in a union.

NJW, I firmly disagree.

Before I was furloughed from Flex, I had sent in the card to the union. I sent it in hoping to get this brought to a head and let the pilots decide if they want a union or not. Enough of my fellow pilots did not submit a card, and that tells me that the majority of Flex pilots are not interested in a union. Period. NOT INTERESTED.
I think the rules were correct before. If you are not interested, or too lazy to fill out a simple card, then your vote should be considered no. All you are doing is trying to jam down the throats of the Flex pilots what has been proven over 13 years that they do not want. What do you not understand about that????
And yes, I understand the need for unions, I was a shop steward in both the Teamsters and Machinists in my younger days. And yes, I personally would like to see a few things change at Flex (most notably the ability to change things on a moments notice, things such as furlough agreements) but the company has not shown to do that in the past. As for bases, rules and such, that would all need to be negotiated anyway, with absolutely no promises that any of that would happen, union or not.
Not sure those few things are worth the contentious enviroment that would be around for the next few years.

Hung

 

[netjetwife]

Hung, me too...

Life can get hectic for a family w/a normal lifestyle. It's doubly so for frac families, so there could be perfectly legit reasons that a pilot didn't get a card in on time-- that had meant to vote yes. Thus, the only fair thing to do is make it neutral. The penalty comes in losing out on your vote. Turning it into a NO vote is excessive punishment.

We don't conduct our Country's voting like that. To me, that says it all. I bet lots of us have missed voting in a local election before. The thought of those votes getting counted as NO or YES votes would start a riot at City Hall. Whose to say how people intended to vote? So let's just turn them into YES votes... Now you can see why such presumptions are wrong --either way. I was amazed when I learned that organizing drive votes were so undemocratic.

Neutrality also passes your lazy rule. No card, no count... that motivates those who want to vote. Fair and square...

As to negotiations, when you first start out having nothing--no contract-- then you have lots to gain, little to lose. There's many things in a CBA beyond pay if you didn't think that would change. There's value just in getting a legally binding set of rules in place that can't be changed on you.

It seems that there are definitely some possibilities you could explore. With a majority rule no one forces anything on anyone...

 

[wacoflyr]

With a majority rule no one forces anything on anyone...

Huh? Did you really mean to say that? And if you are in the minority? I don't know what to say! I got a good laugh before bedtime. Thanks!