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Aaah, forgot about flightinfo for awhile. *****Let's stir the pot on a boring round of the daily required standby. *****A few rumors that don't seem to be dying out on the line:

1.) Management is seeking to go to an all CAFO system

2.) no more fleet differential on pay (may tie in to above)

3.) changes to per diem system to a capped expense reimbursement for actual expenses only

Other issues to be discussed, the overnight loss of workrules 10 years in the making with the advent of our new bid procedures, lack of a transparent solutions process (one guy trying to get into management and pouring the company juice does not constitute a working Focus Group or CAB, introduction of non flex branded/maintained equipment into the fleets. *****Also hearing there has been a significant increase in TRB referrals, any truth to this?
 
dbman said:
Aaah, forgot about flightinfo for awhile. *****Let's stir the pot on a boring round of the daily required standby. *****A few rumors that don't seem to be dying out on the line:

1.) Management is seeking to go to an all CAFO system

2.) no more fleet differential on pay (may tie in to above)

3.) changes to per diem system to a capped expense reimbursement for actual expenses only

Other issues to be discussed, the overnight loss of workrules 10 years in the making with the advent of our new bid procedures, lack of a transparent solutions process (one guy trying to get into management and pouring the company juice does not constitute a working Focus Group or CAB, introduction of non flex branded/maintained equipment into the fleets. *****Also hearing there has been a significant increase in TRB referrals, any truth to this?
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1 - They said during their yearly Flt Ops presentation back in May that they are doing away with the CAFOs once upgrades begin. However, I imagine that there may be more downgrades, and thus those downgraded would be CAFOs

2 - Sounds good to me. This is how every other fractional does it

3 - Yeah I heard this from management at recurrent. It was an idea he is "tossing around." The idea being that you can expense $75 a day (or whatever the amount is) on anything you want and expense it. But I dont think it would happen, too much paperwork and people would abuse it in my opinion.

4- As for your statement of: "Other issues to be discussed, the overnight loss of workrules 10 years in the making with the advent of our new bid procedures" I dont understand what you mean. What work rules changed with flexbidding? Sure we have changed the way we place bids, but that does not mean the work rules changed.

5 - The FOFG. I will agree it is mroe or less useless, just like the CAB. They dont have any real power and besides, when was the last meeting anyway? But I dont think it is fair to take it out on the fellow pilots on the committee. Did you volunteer? They are just trying to get something done, but are at the mercy of the sloooooow pace of management. And where did this idea of the one dude wanting a management job come from? He use to be a standards pilot but that does not mean he wants a management job. Has he applied for one in the past? If so then that is news to me. Anyway, point is all those dudes are just trying to help. They ave no control over any changes. All they really have control over is the topics. And even then management can just say "no, lets move on." If you think you can do better then by all means volunteer, go to a meeting!!

6 - Non flex based equipment? I have not heard about that. Can you say more?
 
I am interested in the NJA Global rumor. But, it would not surprise me since Bombardier is all about moving tin. We have choked the chicken on this for what, 10 plus years now?
 
I can tell you this. The issue with the homewood suites is exactly the type of thing mgmt wants us to be mad at. The more we argue with each other about a stupid hotel in one place in the entire country the happier mgmt is. Do you think they want us arguing and being upset at pay, work rules, rest requirements??? NO, they want us bickering at each other about a stupid hotel so other stuff is now on the backburner. Wake the F up people.
 
Yo Art, Where you been man? This is a non-issue. Homeboy matched the Hazmat rate and guys are just changing the assigned hotel. No prob man. Move on to other stuff, like drain-o!
 
Homeboy vs Hazmat.........Big whoop........stop wasting your time

Card Drive?!........Sit down, shut-up and get back to work.
 
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ArtVandalay said:
Really?? I know of a few airlines that have been in the red for decades. That is how they run and prevent pay increases.
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No you don't know that. There is no such thing as a business that can lose money indefinitely. When a business loses money over long term its balance sheet (Assets balanced by Liabilities and Equity; thus the term "balance sheet") loses all its Equity and Liabilities exceed Assets. At that point the company is bankrupt. Art, take a lesson in accounting 101 for a basic lesson in business and stop talking out the wrong end.
 
"At that point the company is bankrupt."

Pers, take a lesson in Airline 101. They file, dump lots of debt, pensions (ask me how I know), and other liabilities. They then start a new balance sheet. Been done over and over. As much as I hate agreeing with Art, he's right this time.
Helm
 
ArtVandalay said:
I can tell you this. The issue with the homewood suites is exactly the type of thing mgmt wants us to be mad at. The more we argue with each other about a stupid hotel in one place in the entire country the happier mgmt is. Do you think they want us arguing and being upset at pay, work rules, rest requirements??? NO, they want us bickering at each other about a stupid hotel so other stuff is now on the backburner. Wake the F up people.
Click to expand...

Art,

You pick the fights you can win. Not will win, but can win. You can't win a fight if there's no place to have it, and that's where we stand. There's no point in arguing the big debate points at the moment, and the black helicopter "that's what management wants" bit needs to stop. They're not that smart and organized.

I have no problem with the Homewood vs. the Hazmat debate. It may be small beans, but it's at least something the average crewmember can address. Frankly, it should be taken as the kind of un-researched, un-negotiated, snap judgement our management is prone to making despite the overwhelming opinion of the pilot group. That individuals are able to throw it back at them is a lumberyard sticking in their eye.

We can have the big debates when we have protected dissent. I think we're getting close to that tipping point again as there are very few praise Flex and pass on the rest types on the line anymore.
 
How is any of this GROWTH? I didn't go to harvard so maybe someone can tell how we are experiencing growth? We are shrinking. The company won't even acknowledge that. We're to scared to take the next step and bring the globals here, so the door has been wide open for NJ's to get em. Well think about this Flex, how do you suppose we are going to continue "growth" let alone stay in business, when our competitor flies our products, at less cost than we offer? Flexjet needs a very large broom. And if i get one more msg about we all need to try to save 1 gal of gas per leg or how we need to save $2 a night by switching to a crappy hotel, i'm going to lose it! I'm out
 
J3guy said:
How is any of this GROWTH? I didn't go to harvard so maybe someone can tell how we are experiencing growth? We are shrinking. The company won't even acknowledge that. We're to scared to take the next step and bring the globals here, so the door has been wide open for NJ's to get em. Well think about this Flex, how do you suppose we are going to continue "growth" let alone stay in business, when our competitor flies our products, at less cost than we offer? Flexjet needs a very large broom. And if i get one more msg about we all need to try to save 1 gal of gas per leg or how we need to save $2 a night by switching to a crappy hotel, i'm going to lose it! I'm out
Click to expand...

Now, now, you don't want our upper management to lose out on their bonuses would you? Our "leadership" and I use that term loosely is more concerned with their bonuses vs growing our company...
 
J3guy said:
And if i get one more msg about we all need to try to save 1 gal of gas per leg or how we need to save $2 a night by switching to a crappy hotel, i'm going to lose it! I'm out
Click to expand...

I think this is the sentiment among everyone. We have been doing our job, without complaints on anything, since the furlough and, we have met or exceeded every demand put on us by management in that time frame and for what??? We have gotten nothing in return, not even a pat on the back. Ok, we got a bonus last year; should that not be given to everyone if the company does well?? Well, the company is kicking a$$ and taking names the past year and we have all sacrificed and done as we are told and what do hear now?? We might layoff again??? That's a handsome reward for the sacrifices we have made on the line AND, the dispatchers etc... I think we have the absolute worst marketing and sales team of any fractional and until that broom hits the top floor, it will be the status quo people.

I will say this also, if this rumor is found to be true about globals going to netjets, the company can probably welcome a union vote not too shortly after. I think people at Flex are fed up with stagnation and excuses while other fracs are starting to prosper again. The only hand we have in the game is a vote; as sad as I hate to say it, its the only way the employees can get back at the negative morale trickling from the top office of fred greed.
 
ArtVandalay said:
I think this is the sentiment among everyone. We have been doing our job, without complaints on anything, since the furlough and, we have met or exceeded every demand put on us by management in that time frame and for what??? We have gotten nothing in return, not even a pat on the back. Ok, we got a bonus last year; should that not be given to everyone if the company does well?? Well, the company is kicking a$$ and taking names the past year and we have all sacrificed and done as we are told and what do hear now?? We might layoff again??? That's a handsome reward for the sacrifices we have made on the line AND, the dispatchers etc... I think we have the absolute worst marketing and sales team of any fractional and until that broom hits the top floor, it will be the status quo people.

I will say this also, if this rumor is found to be true about globals going to netjets, the company can probably welcome a union vote not too shortly after. I think people at Flex are fed up with stagnation and excuses while other fracs are starting to prosper again. The only hand we have in the game is a vote; as sad as I hate to say it, its the only way the employees can get back at the negative morale trickling from the top office of fred greed.
Click to expand...


Why wait to find out if this is true? Time for a union at Flex...
 
An organization is only as good as its leaders. You guys are *************************ed.
 
exagony said:
Does anyone know the process of getting it started?
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Ok, where have you guy's been? There's been a grass roots movement for the past 2 mos. The rumor is that an overwhelming amount of Yes votes have been received and the process is well underway. Can't believe you all have been left out of the loop. They've been very careful about who's been approached in hopes of keeping things below the radar until the the votes were counted.

On another note, Art I can't believe I'm saying this but your last few posts have been lucid, well thought out and generally lacking the usual one sided, simple minded and irrational ramblings I've come to expect.

Bravo.
 
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John MClain said:
Ok, where have you guy's been? There's been a grass roots movement for the past 2 mos. The rumor is that an overwhelming amount of Yes votes have been received and the process is well underway. Can't believe you all have been left out of the loop. They've been very careful about who's been approached in hopes of keeping things below the radar until the the votes were counted.

On another note, Art I can't believe I'm saying this but your last few posts have been lucid, well thought out and generally lacking the usual one sided, simple minded and irrational ramblings I've come to expect.

Bravo.
Click to expand...

I sent my card in 2 or so years ago when the last drive for a union was on. Wasn't aware of a new drive - if so where does one log on to vote - also need to get the word out as I don't know of anyone who is aware of the "grass root drive'. First I've heard about it and I think if it was more public it would be very welcome news and have a lot of support from crew members.
 
ArtVandalay said:
I think we have the absolute worst marketing and sales team of any fractional and until that broom hits the top floor, it will be the status quo people.
Click to expand...

That's because we keep throwing the same people at new problems. This is also true with our third party messenger leader.

If you want a good chuckle, find out what his educational background is.

One thing is for sure..the times they are a'changing....for the better.
 

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