Latest at Flexjet?

[ArtVandalay]

In 3 years we'll have another group called the pilot enhancement association. They'll tell us that the focus group didn't really fulfill what they intended it to but, this new fresh group is here to listen. Each pilot will have his own personal representative to forward complaints and issues to. Upper management will be directly spoken with on these issues, yada yada yada. Because each pilot will have his own representative on the association group, we will need to hire an additional 400 pilots to cover each pilot. Those extra 400 pilots will be able to effectively negotiate crew meal choices for each pilot but only on a monthly basis. If you want chicken, you'll get chicken, 3 times a day for every rotation for the entire month. Chicken enchiladas, chicken and dumplings, chicken and rice, etc...We will be able to get a PDF version of the FOM within the next 6-8 years but only available on the original blackberry's, not the curve; therefore, we will need to hire an additional 400 pilots to create a focus group for the 2nd 400 pilots to study the effects of switching to an Iphone and what impact this will have on the company and how to implement the FOM into the iphone.

Ok so a little bitterness here. What the hell do we have 4 ACP's for?? They know the complaints we have but, they want US to come up with solutions?? I have a solution, management needs to fix problems, not us.

 

[notapilot]

Well said Art.

 

[Nolife]

Actually I heard plenty of good cost saving solutions to issues while I was there and those solutions were always shot down by DG among others for various non-sensical reason... like "because I said so" from your Dad. Basing is a good example and I never could get a good reason why they were so limited. It's not that they want pilot to find solutions, it's that they don't want to change.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Until certain people are no longer at flex, the status quo will be the norm. It's not a bad place to work, in fact, I'm quite happy here; however, in the 7+ years I've been here, crew meals have always been an issue and here we are still trying to figure it out when all the company needs to do is the right thing. Make it right. Ok it's going to cost a hair more to give these guys a choice in their meals, SO WHAT. What the company is really saying to us is that WE are not WORTH them spending the money to make us happier. That is what all this boils down to and crew meals is just a metaphor for how the company really feels about our happiness.

 

[Flyingdog1]

If you want chicken, you'll get chicken, 3 times a day for every rotation for the entire month. Chicken enchiladas, chicken and dumplings, chicken and rice, etc...


What about the KFC Double down?? That's got to be healthy, no bread.

 

[DirtyBeech]

If you want chicken, you'll get chicken, 3 times a day for every rotation for the entire month. Chicken enchiladas, chicken and dumplings, chicken and rice, etc...


What about the KFC Double down?? That's got to be healthy, no bread.

Sounds like one of our standard breakfast servings. Still, two chickens sandwiching some cheese would be a refreshing change from the standard egg and potato flavored grease.

I'll consider it real progress, food choices or not, when the company realizes that my hunger isn't tied to an owner's presence on the airplane.

 

[netjetwife]

Actually I heard plenty of good cost saving solutions to issues while I was there and those solutions were always shot down by DG among others for various non-sensical reason... like "because I said so" from your Dad. Basing is a good example and I never could get a good reason why they were so limited. It's not that they want pilot to find solutions, it's that they don't want to change.

Being so close-minded points to an ego problem and/or lack of respect for pilots. NJA had their own domicile debacle for awhile... You're right, there is no good reason for it in the frac industry that's why it got changed during negotiations. When pilots negotiate a contract, management has to work with them to find solutions -- not just to company-identified problems -- but to those put on the table by the pilotgroup, as well.

Most NJ pilots now get to fly from their local airport and those hired after 2005 have 100 bases to choose from. It works just fine and there are even provisions for changing between them, too. It's a quality of life issue that all our frac pilots and families deserve.

 

[frac pilot]

In 3 years we'll have another group called the pilot enhancement association. They'll tell us that the focus group didn't really fulfill what they intended it to but, this new fresh group is here to listen. Each pilot will have his own personal representative to forward complaints and issues to. Upper management will be directly spoken with on these issues, yada yada yada. Because each pilot will have his own representative on the association group, we will need to hire an additional 400 pilots to cover each pilot. Those extra 400 pilots will be able to effectively negotiate crew meal choices for each pilot but only on a monthly basis. If you want chicken, you'll get chicken, 3 times a day for every rotation for the entire month. Chicken enchiladas, chicken and dumplings, chicken and rice, etc...We will be able to get a PDF version of the FOM within the next 6-8 years but only available on the original blackberry's, not the curve; therefore, we will need to hire an additional 400 pilots to create a focus group for the 2nd 400 pilots to study the effects of switching to an Iphone and what impact this will have on the company and how to implement the FOM into the iphone.

Ok so a little bitterness here. What the hell do we have 4 ACP's for?? They know the complaints we have but, they want US to come up with solutions?? I have a solution, management needs to fix problems, not us.

Seriously? Your arguing about a group that's being proactive to work through problems, what kind of food you get, you have to carry your manuals instead of having them electronically? Things must be pretty bad here! Your a f@$king idiot!

Oh, you say "what they think about you"? Get a grip, to refresh your memory - we got a 4% raise this year, 4.5% bonus (that was paid to furloughed pilots also). Does any of that say how they think of us?

I'm going out on a limb here but I think we have 4 ACPs because we operate 4 different types of airplanes - just a guess though.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Oh, you say "what they think about you"? Get a grip, to refresh your memory - we got a 4% raise this year, 4.5% bonus (that was paid to furloughed pilots also). Does any of that say how they think of us?

Ummm, they didn't have a choice with regards to the bonus. We, the pilot group, earned that based on rules they created at the start of the last fiscal year.

As for the raise, it was COLA + 1 %. I'm not sending the checks back, but I'm not exactly getting the knee pads ready either.

And no, our monetary compensation isn't at the top of my FlexFixIt list.

 

[frac pilot]

Ummm, they didn't have a choice with regards to the bonus. We, the pilot group, earned that based on rules they created at the start of the last fiscal year.

As for the raise, it was COLA + 1 %. I'm not sending the checks back, but I'm not exactly getting the knee pads ready either.

And no, our monetary compensation isn't at the top of my FlexFixIt list.

Your right, we hit the targets and got a bonus. Nice to get a check when the company had a tough year financially. I guess if I was as negative as everyone else on this board I would have guessed the company would have suspended the bonus program knowing how challenging the year would be - didn't seem to go down that road did they? Maybe suspend the 401k match - nope. Maybe jack up insurance premiums - well okay, they went up a buck.

COLA + 1%, ahhh no. They could have left the payscales alone and everyone would have still got an annual adjustment. But being a crappy company they decided to increase the payscales 4%. So not only did you get one adjustment to your pay in May, you will get another one on your anniversary date. Wow, crappy company to work for!

Great to hear they still haven't made it a "reasonable" place to work based on your standards.

Let me guess, Gateways? Wow - maybe you should have considered moving to one when you signed up for the job, most of us did and don't see a problem with our QOL.

Last day rules? Go back to the airlines where they can reduce your rest to 8 hours and work you to 16 without crewmeals, then come back to me about your QOL. Does it suck, yeah but count how much hourly OT you racked up last year for riding in the back of an airline or sedan. How many free ailine tickets did you get in your career from the company flying you around. Hotels? Do you ever pay for a vacation anymore?

Kool Aid, you got it - I'll drink all I can because in my eyes, life isn't real bad. Union basher? Not in the least, as said many times before on this board - Unions should be in place to seal the relationship, not forge it!

Sorry folks, not trying to attack anyone but it gets old listening to how bad are jobs are.

 

[DirtyBeech]

You should spend more time with the kool aid and less time guessing at the issues of others or what they did in their past lives. You kinda of suck at it.

And yes, we received COLA + 1%. Or are you under the impression that your yearly pay increase is only meant to offset inflation?

Flex is a good job. It is not a great job. You can determine what the great jobs are by determining which companies we're not getting employee applications from.

 

[frac pilot]

Wow, if the issues you have are other than pay, schedule, and domiciles then you would be hard pressed to find any job that meets the "great" standard.

Do the math on your payscales, COLA is built into the scale. All the scales have a built in 3% - 4% average increase year over year except after year 10 where drops to 1.5% - 2.5%. Lets face it, not every COLA increase has to match CPI and maybe the company thinks $120G/yr is about market for a Lear CA.

The payscale increase is the adjustment to the market, the year to year while your in the scale is the COLA.

Good luck finding that "great" job you strive for, I'm sure that attitude translates right into your resume when someone realizes that you change jobs every 15 to 18 months to find the "right" fit.

 

[Dooker]

Seriously? Your arguing about a group that's being proactive to work through problems, what kind of food you get, you have to carry your manuals instead of having them electronically? Things must be pretty bad here! Your a f@$king idiot!

Oh, you say "what they think about you"? Get a grip, to refresh your memory - we got a 4% raise this year, 4.5% bonus (that was paid to furloughed pilots also). Does any of that say how they think of us?

I'm going out on a limb here but I think we have 4 ACPs because we operate 4 different types of airplanes - just a guess though.

I could give a crap about manuals and food. Seriously. They didn't even come close to addressing the things I actually care about, i.e.:

* Laughable Day 1 rules

* Laughable go-home day rules

* Laughable overtime pay

And let's not forget the real important stuff, like, what happens if we get merged, or bought out? What protection does this pilot group have if the merger/mergee has a contract?

And what about furlough rules? Recall rights? Or are you so senior you think that kind of stuff doesn't apply to you?

Seriously, who gives a flying ******************** about manuals and meals when we still have stuff like that hanging over our heads?

And as far as that surprisingly generous raise/bonus is concerned, did it ever enter your mind that the timing was all a little funny? That it came out just a day or two before the NLRB rule change that makes it, like, ten times easier for us to organize?

You're the one that needs to stop wearing his ass for a hat.

 

[SDCFI]

Your right, we hit the targets and got a bonus. Nice to get a check when the company had a tough year financially. I guess if I was as negative as everyone else on this board I would have guessed the company would have suspended the bonus program knowing how challenging the year would be - didn't seem to go down that road did they? Maybe suspend the 401k match - nope. Maybe jack up insurance premiums - well okay, they went up a buck.

COLA + 1%, ahhh no. They could have left the payscales alone and everyone would have still got an annual adjustment. But being a crappy company they decided to increase the payscales 4%. So not only did you get one adjustment to your pay in May, you will get another one on your anniversary date. Wow, crappy company to work for!

Great to hear they still haven't made it a "reasonable" place to work based on your standards.

Let me guess, Gateways? Wow - maybe you should have considered moving to one when you signed up for the job, most of us did and don't see a problem with our QOL.

Last day rules? Go back to the airlines where they can reduce your rest to 8 hours and work you to 16 without crewmeals, then come back to me about your QOL. Does it suck, yeah but count how much hourly OT you racked up last year for riding in the back of an airline or sedan. How many free ailine tickets did you get in your career from the company flying you around. Hotels? Do you ever pay for a vacation anymore?

Kool Aid, you got it - I'll drink all I can because in my eyes, life isn't real bad. Union basher? Not in the least, as said many times before on this board - Unions should be in place to seal the relationship, not forge it!

Sorry folks, not trying to attack anyone but it gets old listening to how bad are jobs are.

Really? I'm glad life in your bubble is so good, but there are 369 of us who don't have the same standards as you.

Gateways: I wouldn't move right now if they opened 1000 bases, but you know what, I don't know if that'll be true in 5,10,15 years. What if my wife gets transferred? What if I have kids that get jobs in another state and I want to be closer to them? We can't commute like the airlines so we're tied like anchors to our 5 gateways.

You talk about airline/hotel points like some kind of perk the company "gives" us. We earn those points because it's our asses in those seats and in those rooms for half the month. I'd trade them in a heartbeat to fly out and back and be home every night, don't think that's gonna happen though.

Again with the crewmeals? They aren't a "gift" from the company either. They get them so they don't have to give us time to eat, that way we can be "flexible". Even with a SWA 20min turn one person can run to McDonalds or whatever and get food from the terminal, we don't have that option. So if we're stuck with the crewmeals they should at least be edible and having some say in the contents would be an easy and welcome change.

I'll go one up on DB and say this is a great job, but some of that is because in comparison the airlines have gone from great to $hitty in the last 15 or so years. Compared to the majors of the 70's to the early 90's this place isn't even in the same league, let alone ballpark.

 

[can99]

SDCFI, come be furloughed and work in the 3rd world my friend. I will never complain about a crew meal, holiday inn or sitting in a fbo in no where North Dakota ever again. You and others can only complain when you get to endure the things we make do with here..... (although I am getting paid more than that of a 15yr CL605 captain at the moment, so I dont complain)

remember the saying 'people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones'

 

[Rouge Warrior]

SDCFI, come be furloughed and work in the 3rd world my friend. I will never complain about a crew meal, holiday inn or sitting in a fbo in no where North Dakota ever again. You and others can only complain when you get to endure the things we make do with here..... (although I am getting paid more than that of a 15yr CL605 captain at the moment, so I dont complain)

remember the saying 'people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones'

Ditto

 

[CL300Pilot]

Hey Beech, I have to disagree with you on the bonus thing. They do have a choice. Remember last year, we were slated to get something like a 6% bonus but in the bonus plan, if we have bonuses higher than some sort of profit margin, than some clause kicks in. I am sorry to be so vague, but I truly don't remember what was said last year as to the reduction of the bonus.

That being said, with last year being so horrible, they could have nixed the bonus all together or made it the 2% like last years bonus.

Just a though.

Ummm, they didn't have a choice with regards to the bonus. We, the pilot group, earned that based on rules they created at the start of the last fiscal year.

As for the raise, it was COLA + 1 %. I'm not sending the checks back, but I'm not exactly getting the knee pads ready either.

And no, our monetary compensation isn't at the top of my FlexFixIt list.

 

[frac pilot]

I could give a crap about manuals and food. Seriously. They didn't even come close to addressing the things I actually care about, i.e.:

* Laughable Day 1 rules

* Laughable go-home day rules

* Laughable overtime pay

And let's not forget the real important stuff, like, what happens if we get merged, or bought out? What protection does this pilot group have if the merger/mergee has a contract?

And what about furlough rules? Recall rights? Or are you so senior you think that kind of stuff doesn't apply to you?

Seriously, who gives a flying ******************** about manuals and meals when we still have stuff like that hanging over our heads?

And as far as that surprisingly generous raise/bonus is concerned, did it ever enter your mind that the timing was all a little funny? That it came out just a day or two before the NLRB rule change that makes it, like, ten times easier for us to organize?

You're the one that needs to stop wearing his ass for a hat.

Glad someone has some QOL issues to complain about...

* Laughable Day 1 rules - Definately some pitfalls here, more present in the FL and CA Gateways than anywhere else. For the record folks, we still operate 14/10 like everyone else, problem lies with travel rules within the Gateway (correct me if I'm wrong Dooker). A company advantage for sure, lets hope the recommendations by the focus group get addressed.

* Laughable go-home day rules - Doesn't happen enough to out weigh the benefits, just my take. Again for the record, company can schedule us up to 16 on our last day but eveything over 14 must be commercial travle (airline, sedan, etc.)

* Laughable overtime pay - Compared to contract rates, not too bad but below industry standard. Not laughable but again, just my take.

Each in its own, hardly laughable but tied together it definately can be difficult. Still doesn't make this a crappy job.

And let's not forget the real important stuff, like, what happens if we get merged, or bought out? What protection does this pilot group have if the merger/mergee has a contract?

Go on spending your career worrying about this, you'll realize that life just passed you by. As for the protection, ask the America West and USAir pilots how their merger is going (5 years and counting). Seems the protection they had in their contract didn't do didly for them and they were represented by the same union!

And what about furlough rules? Recall rights? Or are you so senior you think that kind of stuff doesn't apply to you?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't our furloughed pilots get a severence package with recall rights? Oh, I forgot - the company doesn't have to follow that because it's not in a contract. Again, such a crappy company to give a severence package and recall rights when they are not obligated to - don't forget some bonus payouts too. Honestly, why wouldn't the company rehire pilots they already invested time and money in, know the company and the business? Probably makes more sense to go hire pilots with no exposure to the fractional world and/or this kind of flying...just thinking out loud here.

And as far as that surprisingly generous raise/bonus is concerned, did it ever enter your mind that the timing was all a little funny? That it came out just a day or two before the NLRB rule change that makes it, like, ten times easier for us to organize?

Statements like this is why I give you no credibility, everything is a conspiracy to f$%# the pilot because is it's easier too. Hey dipsh#$ every adjustment to our pay scales (there have been 14 since the company was founded) ARE ALL DONE IN MAY!!!!!! So no, it is not a surprise that they did it two days prior to the NRLB rule change. By the way, you can still organize if you want but maybe there are some out there that think the company treats them pretty good and have done so for a while.

 

[frac pilot]

SDCFI, come be furloughed and work in the 3rd world my friend. I will never complain about a crew meal, holiday inn or sitting in a fbo in no where North Dakota ever again. You and others can only complain when you get to endure the things we make do with here..... (although I am getting paid more than that of a 15yr CL605 captain at the moment, so I dont complain)

remember the saying 'people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones'

Stay strong out there, some tend to forget how good they have it here and I just wanted to remind them of it. Hope to see you back soon.

 

[frac pilot]

Ditto

You too, Rouge.