Latest at Flexjet?

[wacoflyr]

AAL? Are you kidding me? The antagonistic atmsophere over there took decades of truly monumental pilot and flight attendent abuse to create. I doubt you could find a more poisonous corporate culture this side of... Well, this side of a really screwed up outfit based at PWM.

 

[OHGOON]

I'm not a union basher or supporter, nor do I drink the company koolaid. I just look at what's going on at other companies and weight the pros and cons. Good or bad, some companies need a union, but AT THIS TIME, I don't see a reason for a union here.

As long as the RLA requires that any non-vote counts as an automatic no-vote you are supporting the anti union side whether you want to see that or not.

BTW, when would there be a time for you to see a union on property? I bet it's right around the time your turn comes to justify yourself, alone, in front of management while they try to Monday morning quarterback one of your decisions. All the while your career and livelyhood hang in the balance.....Bet you'll have trouble even remembering the Cons then?

 

[Club ORD FO]

If/when the furloughed folks come back, do they start at year one pay, whatever the left at, or whatever they would be at had they been continually employed? Anyone know?

 

[Boxer]

If/when the furloughed folks come back, do they start at year one pay, whatever the left at, or whatever they would be at had they been continually employed? Anyone know?

Yup, that is something I would like to know too...

 

[Dooker]

Sounds like some former colonists prior to the revolution. "The King isn't so bad, do we really need independence..."

If it hadn't been for the Stamp Act and a bunch of other dumb things ol' King George tried to ram down our throats, we might still be part of the Commonwealth.

So far, Flex hasn't done anything that stupid.

 

[Nolife]

If it hadn't been for the Stamp Act and a bunch of other dumb things ol' King George tried to ram down our throats, we might still be part of the Commonwealth. So far, Flex hasn't done anything that stupid.

The point isn't "wait for life to become miserable then act." It's always good to have a say in one's destiny, a seat at the table so to speak. If the membership is happy then they won't ask for too much over what the company offers. People tend to resort to the emotional argument against unions instead of a logical argument for unions. Unions aren't rep or dem, they are simply laborers getting together and deciding they want some control over their work-place.

 

[Praetorian]

Yes, we have the newly founded Focus Group.

That's too bad. This is a sure sign they have hired a "union avoidance consultant".

"Shefferman advised management to institute a device called an employee roundtable. Purportedly designed to give workers a way to air their grievances and influence company policy, in reality the roundtable becomes management's tap into the worker grapevine and its repressive thumb on the informal worker power structure. The regular group meetings provided management with a system for planting information, as well as for identifying and controlling the leaders among employees." Martin Levitt, Confessions of a Union Buster

 

[Dooker]

That's too bad. This is a sure sign they have hired a "union avoidance consultant".

"Shefferman advised management to institute a device called an employee roundtable. Purportedly designed to give workers a way to air their grievances and influence company policy, in reality the roundtable becomes management's tap into the worker grapevine and its repressive thumb on the informal worker power structure. The regular group meetings provided management with a system for planting information, as well as for identifying and controlling the leaders among employees." Martin Levitt, Confessions of a Union Buster

Give us some credit.

Nobody actually believed the focus group (or, before it, the CAB) would accomplish anything significant. It's been almost universally derided as monkey shine, and rightly so. Also, I would argue that the real leaders among the pilot group have stayed well away from it.

 

[SDCFI]

So someone on another "pro pilot" forum said the CAFO program is going away. I haven't heard anything on the line or the BB, can anyone confirm this?

 

[Boxer]

If it hadn't been for the Stamp Act and a bunch of other dumb things ol' King George tried to ram down our throats, we might still be part of the Commonwealth.

So far, Flex hasn't done anything that stupid.

The Stamp Act wasn't George's idea. Your point is well taken but keep that in mind.

 

[Praetorian]

Give us some credit.

Nobody actually believed the focus group (or, before it, the CAB) would accomplish anything significant. It's been almost universally derided as monkey shine, and rightly so. Also, I would argue that the real leaders among the pilot group have stayed well away from it.

I have no doubt many of your pilots know what's going on, but not all of them. I only wanted to highlight the significance of this "focus group", because I've seen some pilots -particularly in a few of the Avaintair threads- speak admiringly of their version of one of these groups.

We had one of these at Flops, once upon a time, before our pilots got wise. Story I heard was they spent about six months preparing a proposal to present to the CEO to (fix all the problems) only to be patted on the head and sent packing. That was even before the price of darkness MS came along. Funny thing was some of the guys on that committee ended up on the union organizing committee.

All I'm saying is there is an arc to these things and your management seems to feel that, at this point union-avoidance consultants are necessary. The funny thing is these kinds of consultants usually end up making adversaries out of the pilots and their management.

Can't making money busting unions if their is no union to bust.

 

[FalconPilot69]

The sad thing is

Whoever this self proclaimed "leader" of the focus group is no better than the last leader of the CAB. If you read his posts, he is saying exactly what management wants. This dude is even trying to moderate what is said on BB. WTF! These guys were elected by pilots to represent the pilots but it looks like one of our fleets screwed the pooch on this dude.

Give us some credit.

Nobody actually believed the focus group (or, before it, the CAB) would accomplish anything significant. It's been almost universally derided as monkey shine, and rightly so. Also, I would argue that the real leaders among the pilot group have stayed well away from it.

 

[Hung Start]

For those of us out of the loop, could you give the leaders' initials and fleet?

Thanks

Hung

 

[smartelephant]

If/when the furloughed folks come back, do they start at year one pay, whatever the left at, or whatever they would be at had they been continually employed? Anyone know?

When I got the phone call from TC last year, I asked these exact same question's. I was told we would receive longevity credit for vacation and 401K contribution/match. When I asked again about credit for pay, he said he was not sure and that he would have to get back to me. I have yet to hear anything further, but my guess is there will be some sort of change to the equation. Maybe go back at current longevity -1 year or maybe even start over at year one pay. We really have no choice but to accept what they offer. I guess you could refuse the job, but that would be kind of stupid in this job market.

On another note. What is this "focus group?" Someone mentioned this is the CAB in a new dress and prettier lipstick. Exactly what is the groups intention's?

 

[Dooker]

Whoever this self proclaimed "leader" of the focus group is no better than the last leader of the CAB. If you read his posts, he is saying exactly what management wants. This dude is even trying to moderate what is said on BB. WTF! These guys were elected by pilots to represent the pilots but it looks like one of our fleets screwed the pooch on this dude.

The gig was up as soon as they came out with the list of topics, all of which were selected by Dave and Fred. None of them was what anyone would consider especially pressing. Crew expenses. Meals. Jackets. Who gives a tinker's damn? What about day-one travel? Conspicuously absent.

The Focus Group was a failure. The amount of interest, of "buy-in," among the pilot group was abysmal this time around.

If Waterview doesn't realize that (and something tells me they do ...), they're high.

 

[EatSleepFly]

For those of us out of the loop, could you give the leaders' initials and fleet?

Thanks

Hung

I bet it wouldn't take long to guess... :nuts:

 

[DUATS]

If/when the furloughed folks come back, do they start at year one pay, whatever the left at, or whatever they would be at had they been continually employed? Anyone know?

Nobody knows, but I'll speculate, based on a fact. I got my statement from Computershare for my ESOP stock. It shows that shares have continued to vest over the last quarter. That means we are still considered employees. So, I would speculate that worst case scenario we get credit for the time served: If you had 20 months in when furloughed, you'll be 2nd year and move to 3rd about 4 months later.

That's just my best guess. Moving everyone back to Day 1 would hurt morale. Giving everyone credit for the time gone would be expensive. I bet on the middle ground.

(Don't forget about the two pay raises since the furlough.)

 

[Hung Start]

I bet it wouldn't take long to guess... :nuts:

Hahaha! We think alike, my friend.

Hung

 

[unclepetey]

Does anyone remember how they handled the pay during the last furlough?

 

[flex*wife]

I'm bored so I'll reply to your thoughts.

Flex wife, you're ignorant of what is going on, and I hope you would educate yourself before you decide to speak on this board again.

(Man, that was hard not to tell her to go get back on her dance pole, but I did it.)

geesshh, I could tell you your wife was gorgoeus, you are awesome and all I ever wanna be when I grow up is you, but you'd still find a way to disagree with me.

Does management deserve some credit - sure and I'm willing to give credit where credit it due. But just because nothing has happened to you personally that makes you nervous doesn't mean it hasn't happened to other people. I'd love to talk specifics but every time i'm willing to I get slammed or threatened.

You don't want a seat at the table that determines your future so be it but stop being so angry that others do. And I'm glad that other people here were helpful in pointing out that it's when you figure out you need a union it's already too late...

Before you attacked me I was simply responding to someones post saying that a union has no chance at flex. That should make you happy dog. Or are you just trying to make sure Waterview knows your position (speaking of CYA)?

 

[Flyingdog1]

geesshh, I could tell you your wife was gorgoeus, you are awesome and all I ever wanna be when I grow up is you, but you'd still find a way to disagree with me.

Does management deserve some credit - sure and I'm willing to give credit where credit it due. But just because nothing has happened to you personally that makes you nervous doesn't mean it hasn't happened to other people. I'd love to talk specifics but every time i'm willing to I get slammed or threatened.

You don't want a seat at the table that determines your future so be it but stop being so angry that others do. And I'm glad that other people here were helpful in pointing out that it's when you figure out you need a union it's already too late...

Before you attacked me I was simply responding to someones post saying that a union has no chance at flex. That should make you happy dog. Or are you just trying to make sure Waterview knows your position (speaking of CYA)?

She is, I am, and you'd be a lucky man; no disagreement there.

Nobody ever debates the facts here, it's all emotion from speculation. I have not or will ever "threaten" anyone. If you get "slammed", it's because you are ignorant of the facts. What exactly would a union do for the former "union basher" who got fired here recently?

Tell me what a union would bring Flex. Why do we need one? What does my payment to them get me? Where are my work rules not fair? Let's debate some facts. Let everyone weigh the pros and cons. If you convince me we need a union here, I'll be your number one guy on the soap box.

 

[CL300Pilot]

I have still yet to see Flexjet fire someone who did nothing wrong. Each and everyone of us make mistakes and as long as you fess up to it, you are usually ok.

Can you get suspended for stupidity? Absolutely. Will you get fired if you deny or do something insanely stupid and say that you did nothing wrong and would do it again? Absolutely. The bottom line is that Flex does a real good job of taking care of their pilots as long as we do the right thing. Even if we screw up.

Each and everyone one of us knows a pilot here that we feel should have been gone years ago and question why they still are. Since that is the case, how can management be so pilot unfriendly? As I have said before, Flex is not perfect. Flex is however not a bottom feeder either.

I have yet to see solid reasons why we would need a union. So wife, if you could, please feel free to state reasons why we should unionize. Do convince those of us who feel the total opposite as you as to why it is needed. I am truly curious. And no, I am asking this to attack you either.

 

[Nolife]

I'll bite. I'd like to see the union for: bases, pay, day one issues, last day issues, job action security, guaranteed recalls at released terms, and any future changes which may come that aren't in play right now.

Union at flex wouldn't be so bad. Management/labor relations aren't horrible and a union wouldn't change that. All it would do is give labor a seat at the table.

There's nothing to fear except fear itself. I think non-union folks are afraid of change and that's OK. My grandma was scared of the auto-mobile once but in the end she embraced them and couldn't live without one.

 

[dime line]

Management/labor relations aren't horrible and a union wouldn't change that

You need to rethink that statement! If you think any part of your job sucks now, it will really suck when you vote the union in, cause the company thinks you dont trust them......duh......

but at Options, were under a contract, its in writing and the morons in management cant change it. In my opinion the fight was worth it.

 

[Flyingdog1]

You need to rethink that statement! If you think any part of your job sucks now, it will really suck when you vote the union in, cause the company thinks you dont trust them......duh......

but at Options, were under a contract, its in writing and the morons in management cant change it. In my opinion the fight was worth it.

I haven't seen your contract. What did you gain?

 

[dime line]

I haven't seen your contract. What did you gain?

Not much, but its in writing! to me that's important.

 

[Dooker]

I'll bite. I'd like to see the union for: bases, pay, day one issues, last day issues, job action security, guaranteed recalls at released terms, and any future changes which may come that aren't in play right now.

Union at flex wouldn't be so bad. Management/labor relations aren't horrible and a union wouldn't change that. All it would do is give labor a seat at the table.

There's nothing to fear except fear itself. I think non-union folks are afraid of change and that's OK. My grandma was scared of the auto-mobile once but in the end she embraced them and couldn't live without one.

The noisiest union bashers we've got are the ones who hand-carry their expenses to the Puzzle Palace and schmooze the schedulers and dispatchers and who seem to be flying for a completey different company than the one the rest of us work for.

To them, everything's just peachy, and they can't understand why everybody else isn't as overjoyed as they are.

Those are the guys that really make me want to see a union on property. Of course, there's no guarantee that sort of behavior would go away even with a union, but at least the rest of us could make them feel like the w************************* they are without fear of retribution.

 

[doh]

I've never understood why you would go to the office on your days off. I went to one of the employee meetings two years ago so I could put a face to some of the names but it took me 1:45 to get there. And I never met any of the schedulers or dispatchers anyway.

 

[Dooker]

I've never understood why you would go to the office on your days off. I went to one of the employee meetings two years ago so I could put a face to some of the names but it took me 1:45 to get there. And I never met any of the schedulers or dispatchers anyway.

You go to the office on your days off because you have no life, outside of this job.

 

[doh]

I realise that. I just still don't understand it!