Latest ASA offer

[atrdriver]

Profit sharing! The way the ramp is being managed none of the non-union employees will get any of it!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

Well, regardless of how bad the ramp is, we are still posting a profit, which should mean profit sharing checks. But the company has not even raised that topic in negotiations.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The last offer, or the Skywest SAPA proposal are not substandard. They are both better than many other regionals. What is your standard?

First of all, the "last offer" was not an offer. It would only have been an offer if they proposed it, on paper, in the presence of the NMB. It was a verbal "what if" that our MEC challenged them to put on paper... which they never did.

Second, the SAPA offer is WAY better than anything we have been offered so far, either on paper or verbally. That from John Rice, CNC Chairman... if you had bothered to attend the LEC meeting. Since you weren't there to hear the answers to your questions, maybe you need to STFU.

 

[jehtplane]

Not sure, but isn't the SKYW proposal from the association to the company? Doesn't say anything about being an offer from management. Any SKYW pilot care to comment on this?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

That is what I thought as well.

 

[jehtplane]

Second, the SAPA offer is WAY better than anything we have been offered so far, either on paper or verbally. That from John Rice, CNC Chairman... if you had bothered to attend the LEC meeting. Since you weren't there to hear the answers to your questions, maybe you need to STFU.

Yes but the SAPA offer was from the Pilots to Management, at least that is the way I understood it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yes but the SAPA offer was from the Pilots to Management, at least that is the way I understood it.

Correct... but management controls SAPA. Do you really believe SAPA came up with a proposal that would potentially embarass management on their own? Management tells them what to ask for. Management screwed up because they actually believed it wouldn't get out to the ASA pilots until it was official.

 

[CFIT]

Not sure, but isn't the SKYW proposal from the association to the company? Doesn't say anything about being an offer from management. Any SKYW pilot care to comment on this?

Profit sharing! The way the ramp is being managed none of the non-union employees will get any of it!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I think the proposal to management is a little lofty but possible, and the profit sharing bonus I got today for a little over 2 grand was sweet.

 

[JoeMerchant]

In other words, at a profit number of 45 million per quarter, Skywests investment will be fully paid for in 2 1/2 years.

ASA isn't generating 45 million per quarter, and the "investment" can be realized with or without ASA pilots. We are not the "investment".

 

[JoeMerchant]

In defence of LJ, while I certainly don't agree with where she and Joe are going now, the best times this pilot group ever had was when DW was VP of flight ops, and she and CS were CPs.

Just "where are we going now". We have been critical of our strategy for quite some time now, and it is playing out as we said it would. I don't like it anymore than you do, but if you don't have scope, you don't have leverage. We don't have scope, and we don't have leverage. Sometimes the truth hurts....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes they are....this is something the line pilots seem to keep forgetting. I am about the most impatient person around and it is driving me crazy not having a contract after 4 years of negotiations. I trust that the union has my best intrest in mind and there are NO egos in play now. The new MEC is more open and willing to work with the company, but the company hasn't changed their tune!
.......

Sinca, this quote interested me. Are you referring to our former MEC Chairman? I have heard this from several ALPA people recently. Was there a problem with our former MEC Chairman?

 

[JoeMerchant]

They are having informal meetings because the company requested them, and ALPA would like to get this contract done. They are not willing to sign a crappy deal to get it done though, and I applaud them for that. Time is working against the company, not us.

No, time is working against us. Skywest doesn't need the ASA pilots, and it can pursue it's goals with or without us.

 

[JoeMerchant]

OhPlease, I have no twisted version of the facts. I emailed the MEC & Neg Comm Chair as I had not received any info about this offer, supposal, whatever you want to call it. John Rice will brief this tomorrow at the LEC meeting, so you'll have your opportunity to ask him there, your face to his face, and all the others face to face. Think you can handle that?

I was told the offer, proposal, supposal etc was inadequate, did not address our issues, had minimal increase for the CR2/ATR, and no cola for the CR7. Rigs were neutered to point of being useless. The company is trying to tie all these issues to PBS, which pilot polling indicates no one wants in lieu of our current method of bidding.

As for the SKYW offer, it may or may not be real. The MEC has not verified it's authentic as the document is not on any official letterhead with signatures. The MEC says if true, it is greater compensation than anything presented informally by the company, and scheduling issues include items already agreed to in our Section 13.

So, call me names all you want but I honestly was not informed of this so-called unofficial supposal. Please question the Neg Comm Chair tomorrow if you attend the meeting. P2Ps don't always get all the info out there, which has been a sore spot with me for the 9+ years I've been on the P2P Comm.

Hoser
P2P

Why wasn't P2P informed of the "supposal"? Why did members of the MEC deny the "supposal" was made in the first place?

 

[ASACAPT]

Here we go again JB. How dear you criticize our last MEC Chairman that worked seflishly for many more years than you have. Again you just confirmed to the world what a Jack$%# you really are. Get a life. Why were you not at the LEC meeting today? If you grow a pair, maybe you can come back and do the job you were elected to do.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Nothing prevents that. But it kind of blows their arguement that we are overpriced when they offer the Skywest pilots MORE than we make on both aircraft, doesn't it? Still believe that we are overpaid? Why don't you just send you check back to the company? And why would they set up a domicile here when we are cheaper? You don't understand that this is about control. They want to have their ultimate control over the pilots. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it does me.

Exactly, this is about control. Jerry isn't going to allow ALPA to dictate terms. If we don't want to play ball, he will take his ball home. Lack of scope is coming home to roost now isn't it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here we go again JB. How dear you criticize our last MEC Chairman that worked seflishly for many more years than you have.

I asked a question ASACAPT. I like to question authority on BOTH sides. Sinca3 made the following observation:

The new MEC is more open and willing to work with the company, but the company hasn't changed their tune!

I have heard similar statements from members of the MEC. Sounds like we had a problem on our side of the table also. Was there a problem before?

As far as him working more years for ALPA than I, that is incorrect. The former MEC Chairman didn't get involved until around 1998. He was very critical of the MEC Chairman in the '96-'97 timeframe. It wasn't until the 146 issue that he really got very involved.

Was it OK for him to be critical of ALPA and the ASA MEC? He was as critical if not more critical than I am.

 

[JustaNumber]

Why are so many of you assuming that if we give the company what they want, we suddenly get to keep all our flying and nothing else gets transferred to Skywest???? We could agree to a really low cost contract, and STILL lose flying!!!

The only scope we will be given is the scope we negotiate for. I hope all of you realize this needs to be our NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Why are so many of you assuming that if we give the company what they want, we suddenly get to keep all our flying and nothing else gets transferred to Skywest???? We could agree to a really low cost contract, and STILL lose flying!!!

The only scope we will be given is the scope we negotiate for. I hope all of you realize this needs to be our NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

Very good point JustaNumber, however our MEC is not making it the number one issue and the scope they are asking for is inadequate. Anything short of a single list is a waste of time. The scope we are asking for still allows Skywest to transfer 15% of our flying and after the 15%, they just have to take the pilots with the aircraft. Sorry, but that is unacceptable.

Why aren't we asking for a single list? Why are we relying on Skywest joining ALPA for our scope? What will that do even if Skywest joins ALPA? How many aircraft can be transferred while we wait for Skywest to join ALPA? Is there any strategic planning going on????

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Exactly, this is about control. Jerry isn't going to allow ALPA to dictate terms. If we don't want to play ball, he will take his ball home.

Hey crybaby JB:
Isn't that what you do at LEC meetings when you don't get your way? Don't you take your ball (in this case meeting notes) and run home to your girlfriend? Grow a pair, you look more and more like an ass every day! Your anti-alpa campaign is only making things worse for yourself! You are doing your fellow aviators at ASA no favors by acting like the horses hiney that you are! Grow up you sissy!

Lack of scope is coming home to roost now isn't it?

You mean the same scope you are trying to have eliminated? Sorry baby, you can't have it your way! Now back to stealing meeting notes and storming out of meetings (that means take your ball and go home)!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You mean the same scope you are trying to have eliminated?

What scope? We don't have any real scope, and you don't either judging by the loss of jobs.

 

[atrdriver]

What scope? We don't have any real scope, and you don't either judging by the loss of jobs.

Yes we do, we have iron clad scope. When was the last time you saw EV code being flown by someone other than an ASA pilot?

 

[Bizjet]

Sinca, this quote interested me. Are you referring to our former MEC Chairman? I have heard this from several ALPA people recently. Was there a problem with our former MEC Chairman?

Not sure about the former MEC Chairman but we are currently having a problem with the current LEC 112 Sec./Treas. doing his job. Everyone is talking about him thinking he is above all the pilots at ASA. I defended you Joey and have been telling all those asking why you are the way you are that you are under the influence of an older over controlling personality that you are codependent upon. It's not nice to fool with MOTHER NATURE is it BoyToy?:laugh: