Latest ASA offer

[ASA_Willy]

In other words, at a profit number of 45 million per quarter, Skywests investment will be fully paid for in 2 1/2 years.

Exactly. With the fire sale price and the DCI contract, Skywest got a hell of a bargain. As long as Delta stays afloat for a couple more years, SKYW is just about guaranteed to recover its investment and still hold whatever residual value there is in the company.

There's plenty of money to be made in thin margin industries as long as the revenue to capital ratio is good and you can keep the margin on the plus side of zero. Groceries chains are the classic example with profit margins (that's return on revenue) of 2% or less.

 

[goodto50meters]

Why all the secrecy ASACAPT? A member of the negotiating committee verified this offer in the crew lounge yesterday and said that we aren't interested in PBS. Why wasn't this offer published to the pilots? We have a right to know and some of us are tired of not being kept in the loop. I'm not sure I want PBS, but I am willing to take this deal. Let us vote on something.

What secrecy? You just said a CNC member told you in the crew lounge.

And, a certain member of management with a gift for blankness verified it too. Another thing he verified is that the 700 rates would obstensively stay where they are now for 5 years. (because that is the contract legnth they want now too) and by my calculations, add another 4 years to negotiate the next contract , that gives us a grand total of 9....NINE....NINER.....FUC@ING NINE....90% OF A DECADE....years without so much as a cost of living increase! Meanwhile the profits roll on in.

BTW, the rates have been where they are now for four years already, so current rates for [email protected]% OF A DECADE.....13% OF A CENTURY......years! NO NO NO way!!!!!

Another thing he verified was that they are not interested in our scope issues or in any retro, measly increases in the 200. Dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.

You are screwing with us right ASA DRIVER (if that is what you really do)? You want to have a vote on a TA that is what we have now? Why? These a$$pirates have screwed with us for four years starting with ZERO-NET-GAIN, moving down to concessions, then after they get you worn down, OK, we will give you what you already have. And this is a good deal to you?

Thank god our reps are not as weaka$$ as you. I am glad they havent wasted our time in voting on a TA that will never pass anyway.

And another thing, how are you out of the loop if you were put in the loop via your crew lounge conversation with the CNC? Just another anti ALPA rant I suppose right?

 

[goodto50meters]

So there won't be a problem with presenting this offer to the pilots. If it isn't what they want, they can vote it down. Let the pilots decide.

So you want to be able to vote in a pilot-wide election every time an offer and counteroffer is offered at the offering table?

In what century would you like a final agreement sir? ahhem....or maaaam?

 

[goodto50meters]

But you ALWAYS believe the propaganda management puts out, right, William?

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Regardless, verbal proposals, or ones written in crayon on the back of a napkin do not make up an "offer" for the union to shoot down. If the company wants to make a serious offer, they need to call the NMB and get back to the table.

Until then no real offer exists, and my MEC did the right thing by telling the company no!!! And you know what? 92.6% of our pilot support the MEC! The last company poll showed that 8% of pilots trust Flight Operations management. Spin that one, Sport!

Great points!

This whole 'off the table' discussions thing with the company smells like a plot to me. Management only wants to do this so as to not have to deal in front of the NMB. They then send out their paid spin henchmen to say they made this great offer but the evil union said no. Isnt it convenient that there is no third party around to set the record straight.

Our guys did the right thing in at least trying yet again to deal with these people. It is too bad it was all a plot in the first place.

If management wants a deal they can make an official offer in front of the NMB.

Otherwise Brian & Jerry, I already have my current contract! I wont screw myself and extend it for another nine years, nice try.

 

[goodto50meters]

It IS time for ALPA to start getting something to US to decide on.

No sir. It is time for MANAGEMENT to stop playing with themselves and agree to something reasonable with our negotiators in order for us to decide on.

The MEC's job is not to just 'get you something to decide on', rather it is to negotiate a good contract taking in all the information available and have you decide on that. Not just anything.

 

[jehtplane]

Lest you not forget a voice of reason is a voice of management trying to stir the pot, please tell everyone how do you guys in the glass house sleep at night?

 

[ASACAPT]

"Originally Posted by ASADriver
I talked to one of the negotiating members and he verifiied that the offer was made. He said it was declined because of pref. bidding. Why can't ALPA at least be honest and say they don't like the deal because of pref. bidding. What's with all the lies and secrets."

The fact that the "offer" was turned down, was not only because of PBS, but because it is essentially current book with PBS. What a deal....

 

[goodto50meters]

I hate to speak up here since this is really an ASA matter, but you are misunderstanding the difference between a formal offer and a "supposal." Pinnacle management came to us with a "supposal" last year also. It is not considered an offer under the law. The entire purpose of a supposal is to circumvent the Section 6 bargaining process and "suppose we were to offer this, what would you think?" Under Section 6 negotiations, any formal offer cannot be removed from the table once it has been made. That would be considered bad faith bargaining by the NMB. However, a supposal made in an informal session isn't constrained by these rules of bargaining under Section 6. The company is merely trying to gauge what your MEC and CNC are willing to accept. I can guarantee if the CNC had showed some willingness to take the offer, then management would have promptly removed it from the table, come up with a slightly less appealing offer, and then formally submit the new offer in front of the mediator. They are trying to figure out just how low the CNC and MEC are willing to go without actually submitting anything formally at this point. Your CNC and MEC were smart enough not to take the bait. You should thank them and be happy that they are smarter than some of the rank-and-file that would like to see everything put up for a vote. You elected these reps for a reason: to represent and bargain on your behalf. Let them do their job.

Right on target!

 

[goodto50meters]

Lest you not forget a voice of reason is a voice of management trying to stir the pot, please tell everyone how do you guys in the glass house sleep at night?

jehtplane,

You have a nice assitar!

 

[ASARJMan]

Lest you not forget a voice of reason is a voice of management trying to stir the pot, please tell everyone how do you guys in the glass house sleep at night?

Voice is LJ, older gf of Joe Merchant. Voice of Reason, geez, the crap she has done in her years here. Sorriest CP we ever had too btw, catered to the young pilots who stroked her ego.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Tomct]

Jetplane, this thread can go whereever.....AS LONG as you keep those AVATARS COMING!!!! Lord Have MERCY!!!!!!!

 

[ironspud]

Surely it would be the same system. It would make NO sense to buy a different piece of software.

I fear PBS WILL come weather we like it or not, it seems to be the industry standard.

The company now seems to want to cram it down our throat in a hurry just to get this deal done. They hope we won't look at it closely.

Do you like your current vacation options? With PBS if you have 7 days off then you get 7 DAYS. PERIOD!! Unlike DUHANGELO, I like being able to turn 7 days off into 17. With PBS you can't do it anymore

Have fun with that

\

Yes you can. PB is an awesome system. You just want to make sure of 2 things. #1-You get something for agreeing to it (Remember, this will make scheduling more efficient for the company). #2-Implement during a period of "hiring". You'll get addicted to it real fast.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Ironspud:

Most of us like efficient scheduling. Why is this bad for pilots, other than the aforementioned loss of days off around your vacation?

 

["GO AROUND"]

Ironspud:

Most of us like efficient scheduling. Why is this bad for pilots, other than the aforementioned loss of days off around your vacation?

Talk to the SKW guys about the PBS they have. They hate it. There are good and bad PBS out there and the good ones seem to be too expensive for ASA.

 

[ampropilot2b]

I'm at Skywest and I love PBS. Sitting about 50% in the domicile and holding 3 day trips, weekends off, 87hrs credit, 18 days off. Am I supposed to complain about this? Have had similar schedules since we went to PBS with similar seniority.

I think the people that are complaining either haven't quite got the system figured out yet (not that I'm that enlightened-there are lots of traps), or they have unrealistic expectations. I keep the bid simple and don't get greedy beyond what my seniority can hold. PBS rocks in my books, but if you get overly ambitious with your bid, it will bite you hard and fast.

 

[Crash Pad]

Go Around- Bad policy asking us to talk to SKYW pilots about anything. SKYW pilots are making more than ASA pilots. On the W2 I get the hourly is different.
SKYW pilots have better work rules.
Now you just discovered that a good chunk of them like pref. bidding.
NOT A GOOD UNION SELL

I have been listening to two debates. 1 dual qual the other pref. bid.

Here is my take. The group most up in arms is scared of dual qual because it is hard to teach an old dog two tricks (if you catch my drift)
The same group is usually not the best at figuring out computers.

The young "inexperienced" 500 hour wonders you all complain about will have no problem picking up two aircraft and figuring out pref. bidding. Which is why the Union better fight hard to make sure these things don't happen.

 

[FORESTGUMP]

Go Around- Bad policy asking us to talk to SKYW pilots about anything. SKYW pilots are making more than ASA pilots. On the W2 I get the hourly is different.
SKYW pilots have better work rules.
Now you just discovered that a good chunk of them like pref. bidding.
NOT A GOOD UNION SELL

I have been listening to two debates. 1 dual qual the other pref. bid.

Here is my take. The group most up in arms is scared of dual qual because it is hard to teach an old dog two tricks (if you catch my drift)
The same group is usually not the best at figuring out computers.

The young "inexperienced" 500 hour wonders you all complain about will have no problem picking up two aircraft and figuring out pref. bidding. Which is why the Union better fight hard to make sure these things don't happen.

I have talked to several SkyWest pilots and flight attendants and almost all of them have said they like PBS. It just takes learning the system to make it work well.

Rather than try to talk them into joining ALPA, why don't we (ASA) get rid of ALPA and take their (SkyW) working agreement. We would immediatly make more money and have better QOL than we have now. Plus, we would stop lining the pockets of our useless union.

If you're not able to dual qualify on other planes, maybe you should not be flying anyway....just a thought.

 

[Bizjet]

I have talked to several SkyWest pilots and flight attendants and almost all of them have said they like PBS. It just takes learning the system to make it work well.

Rather than try to talk them into joining ALPA, why don't we (ASA) get rid of ALPA and take their (SkyW) working agreement. We would immediatly make more money and have better QOL than we have now. Plus, we would stop lining the pockets of our useless union.

If you're not able to dual qualify on other planes, maybe you should not be flying anyway....just a thought.

Did you ever think that the SkyWest pilots had no choice about either PBS or Dual Qualification. Why don't you apply at SkyWest? You sound like you would fit right in.

As for the older pilots do you think that you would have rather had a younger Captain flying the United DC-10 in Sioux City, Iowa, July 19, 1989, than Al Haynes if you were sitting in the back? A former ASA Captain was in the back on a dead head and walked away from the accident. He had the skill and wisdom to say that no one should have lived but for the grace of God and Captain Al Haynes. There still has been no one to fly the sim and successfully place the aircraft on the runway. Even the hot shXt young IP's that think they can walk on water! When you get older you will probably marvel at how much you have learned in a few short years. Experience takes over when your mouth and ego can't.

 

[goodto50meters]

I have talked to several SkyWest pilots and flight attendants and almost all of them have said they like PBS. It just takes learning the system to make it work well.

Rather than try to talk them into joining ALPA, why don't we (ASA) get rid of ALPA and take their (SkyW) working agreement. We would immediatly make more money and have better QOL than we have now. Plus, we would stop lining the pockets of our useless union.

If you're not able to dual qualify on other planes, maybe you should not be flying anyway....just a thought.

Sorry but i have talked to several who hate it.

Take the Skywest working agreement huh? There is no such document. A working agreement is an agreement. An agreement requires two or more parties. Skywest has no such thing. You have a policy manual that can be written and rewritten at managements whim and there is nothing you can do about it.

Stop trying to make your policy manual into something it is not. Tell me this. When management decides they will take your pay, or fire you, who is going to grieve it and arbitrate it? Oh i forgot, you cant, and you cant sue either because there is no contract. Your just plain screwed. Buuuut a union wont help you...nahhhh

 

[atrdriver]

Voice is LJ, older gf of Joe Merchant. Voice of Reason, geez, the crap she has done in her years here. Sorriest CP we ever had too btw, catered to the young pilots who stroked her ego.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

In defence of LJ, while I certainly don't agree with where she and Joe are going now, the best times this pilot group ever had was when DW was VP of flight ops, and she and CS were CPs.