Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[HA25]

You guys are crazy if you think the snot-nosed little punks coming out of the pilot mills these days flying an RJ for 2 years, upgrading to CA, getting their 1000 PIC jet, then applying to ANY large aircraft airline are going to blink twice at jumping on board regardless of what happens to the industry.

Do you think for one second they CARE?

Do you believe for just one IOTA of a moment that there aren't thousands of them churning out every month?

That's the real problem we face: an influx of pilots who don't give a rat's, who are happy to make more than $50k a year getting into an Airbus or a Boeing under age 30, and won't grow a clue until they hit 50, start thinking about retirement, and complain about how much the profession has declined.

Wow... you're one of the few guys in this thread that really seems to understand how grave this problem is.

An interesting statistic I recently came across is one that surveyed RJ pilots and found out that the commuters are filled with 2nd and 3rd career guys and girls. These are people that got fed up with their 9/5 job with $50K/yr paychecks and had a friend who was a pilot and then one thing led to another and before you know it... the 35 year old, 1000TT new hire...

The flood of labor going into the commuters is 90% of the problem with the flood of "qualified" applicants going to the nationals/majors (in a traditional sense).

This is the elephant in the livingroom.

 

[Lear70]

I can definitely agree with that statement.

When I was at PCL, only 1 or 2 guys/gals out of a dozen were college-educated mid-20's pilots with experience in flight instruction / charter and working their way through the ranks.

The rest were either all PFT folks or 2nd career folks or both. Quite a few are friends, but I really get upset when they look at JB pay and think that $100k by year 5 CA is all they'll ever need, especially if it's double or 4 or 5 times what they were making before.

Wonder how long it will take them to start changing their tune. Also wonder if they will EVER realize it was THEIR OWN WILLINGNESS to accept a job that paid food-stamp wages as an F/O that helped drag the industry down to where they're lucky to break 6 figures EVER.

The more people who take these jobs at startups for $65k a year as a CA on a Boeing or Airbus aircraft, the lower the wages across the industry will go.

P*sses me off...

/rant

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Quite a few are friends, but I really get upset when they look at JB pay and think that $100k by year 5 CA is all they'll ever need, especially if it's double or 4 or 5 times what they were making before.


Uh...Yr 5 is not 100k.


P*sses me off...

 

[HA25]

Quite a few are friends, but I really get upset when they look at JB pay and think that $100k by year 5 CA is all they'll ever need, especially if it's double or 4 or 5 times what they were making before.


Uh...Yr 5 is not 100k.


P*sses me off...

Well, lets do some math..

70hrs guarantee X $121/hr = $101,900

even if we assume you can fly yout 1000hrs a year.. that's $121,000... or roughly 2/5 what a WN captain flying 1000 hrs in year 5 makes..

Now... look at this data, and tell me what's wrong with this picture? (Hint, study the average column)

http://www.avjobs.com/salaries-wages-pay/index.asp

Does it make you feel good to know you're part of the problem and not the solution? God Bless those Southwest pilots and the other carrier groups that are busy trying to RAISE the bar!

 

[zonker]

Well, lets do some math..

70hrs guarantee X $121/hr = $101,900

even if we assume you can fly yout 1000hrs a year.. that's $121,000... or roughly 2/5 what a WN captain flying 1000 hrs in year 5 makes..

Now... look at this data, and tell me what's wrong with this picture? (Hint, study the average column)

http://www.avjobs.com/salaries-wages-pay/index.asp

Does it make you feel good to know you're part of the problem and not the solution? God Bless those Southwest pilots and the other carrier groups that are busy trying to RAISE the bar!

You're on a soapbox about raising the bar and you work for Gemini? Where a 14 year MD-11 Captain tops out at $144/hr and an FO gets $93?

What are you, an idiot?

 

[HA25]

You're on a soapbox about raising the bar and you work for Gemini? Where a 14 year MD-11 Captain tops out at $144/hr and an FO gets $93?

What are you, an idiot?

Ok, since you don't bother reading the thread, and my last address to this meaningless point..

-Gemini went thru BK early this year, as you may or may not know.. most airlines that file BK don't give their pilots pay raises, on the contrary, they cut their pay.. and with that Gemini still pays about what your VERY profitable and fast growing company pays.. hmm..

-Gemini is in a realm (multi-contract ACMI) with many non-union (like B6) players that are keeping wage pressure down.

-Gemini is ALPA, and the union will get back what it lost, when the company is profitable again.. and when our contract is amendable. If not, I'll be applying elsewhere.

NOW... Lets compare apple to apples..

WN to B6...

Your move.

 

[zonker]

I turned in my resignation to B6 recently, so I wouldn't exactly defend them as an organization.

But you're still an idiot.

 

[HA25]

I turned in my resignation to B6 recently, so I wouldn't exactly defend them as an organization.

But you're still an idiot.

Nice rebut Albert. Let me summarize your recent contribution to this thread: I don't work for Jet Blue, don't like them, and I think the guy who thinks they're dragging down wages is an idiot... but I have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion since ad hominem attacks are so much easier than trying to place thoughts on the screen for the benefit of the debate.


Sometimes I wonder if some of the people pretending to be pilots on these boards are really pilots, and not airline managers.

take care Einstein.

 

[zonker]

Nice rebut Albert. Let me summarize your recent contribution to this thread: I don't work for Jet Blue, don't like them, and I think the guy who thinks they're dragging down wages is an idiot... but I have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion since ad hominem attacks are so much easier than trying to place thoughts on the screen for the benefit of the debate.


Sometimes I wonder if some of the people pretending to be pilots on these boards are really pilots, and not airline managers.

take care Einstein.

Tell me again how much you're flying that MD-11 around for, pinhead?

Because according to your logic, you should resign immediately in order to uphold the profession.

 

[HA25]

I refer you to my answer on this only two posts ago... short attention span, eh?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1211428&postcount=351

Good night, and good luck with what ever you do.

 

[zonker]

I refer you to my answer on this only two posts ago... short attention span, eh?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1211428&postcount=351

Good night, and good luck with what ever you do.

No, it's just that your excuses are pathetic. Standing up on your retarded soapbox and pointing fingers at others wages, while you willingly fly widebodies around for even less is hypocritical.

 

[SNOWBUM]

I refer you to my answer on this only two posts ago... short attention span, eh?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1211428&postcount=351

Good night, and good luck with what ever you do.

If I remeber correctly Gemini pay before BK was still pathetic, and the work rules were more than horrible when compared to other ACMI carriers like Atlas or World . should they be asking you to resign because you are lowering the standards of the already lower ACMI segment?if you do any squed flights you are also lowering the bar for the likes of Polar.

even if you guys get back what you gave up you are still flying MD-11's for penauts with horrendous work rules.

you have been and are lowering the bar for Atlas ( on the acmi side ) and Polar (on the squed side) and their management uses/used your pitiful contract during their contract negotions.....get of your high pony.

 

[SellingDirt]

No, it's just that your excuses are pathetic. Standing up on your retarded soapbox and pointing fingers at others wages, while you willingly fly widebodies around for even less is hypocritical.

Ding, Ding. We have a winner....

 

[clickclickboom]

I refer you to my answer on this only two posts ago... short attention span, eh?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1211428&postcount=351

Good night, and good luck with what ever you do.

V70 there is something i just dont understand here. You obviously must be hoping to someday get hired with Jb Wn or ?? The reason I say that is because your posts are full of conviction. You argue the JB pay and benes like the mailman that just got caught banging your dog at church on sunday

What i dont understand here is the following: Out of one side of your mouth you are bashing Jb like there is no tomorrow yet you dont work here and dont draw a paycheck from Jetblue?

YET I read your posts and you are defensive of a company that will layoff pilots at random when c checks are due and have some of the worst pay for PIC's in the industry. Are parking old airframes, and have a smoke and mirrors spin on the 747's that they will never get. $83 an hour for a 600,000 lb plus heavy.


AND you are are trolling around Xtrajet threads looking for all kinds of information about perspective hiring and job info yet they pay their 737 capts something like $53 an hour!!

So please let us all know why JB is the be all end all epitome of a scumbag employer paying around $115 an hour and $170 over 70 hrs for line captains

 

[Truckdriver]

Ok, since you don't bother reading the thread, and my last address to this meaningless point..

-Gemini went thru BK early this year, as you may or may not know.. most airlines that file BK don't give their pilots pay raises, on the contrary, they cut their pay.. and with that Gemini still pays about what your VERY profitable and fast growing company pays.. hmm..

-Gemini is in a realm (multi-contract ACMI) with many non-union (like B6) players that are keeping wage pressure down.

-Gemini is ALPA, and the union will get back what it lost, when the company is profitable again.. and when our contract is amendable. If not, I'll be applying elsewhere.

NOW... Lets compare apple to apples..

WN to B6...

Your move.

How did WN compare with other 737 operators when it was only 6 years old? You can't expect B6 to start an airline and put pay and workrules at levels that typically take years to attain. Weren't we all complaining about WN "dragging" the industry down in the 90's? I'll bet if you compare SWA pay and retirement in 1977 to the other carriers flying 737's it would be more pathetic than B6's pay and retirement is now. Not really apples to apples comparison just because they are both LCC's.