Jetblue hiring... how and why?

[BeachBummer]

How old are those who are looking to leave jB for one of the other majors. I'm curious what most people would consider the cut-off. Beyond what age does it no longer make sense to change airlines?

(i'm 40 and considering coming to jB to get back into 121 after a decade long hiatus)

I ran the numbers recently for a 39yo 190capt. If he goes to DAL or UAL next year he still comes out on top by over 1million. That's assuming he never touches a wide body.

I'm 34 an 08' hire and I'm out at the first call from DAL or AA. It's not that I don't like JB, it's that I'll make $$5million more over the next 30 years at those other companies. The compounding interest in the 401k alone is 2million of that.

 

[BeachBummer]

I'm 35, and the first one that calls, I'm gone.

The math says that if you are in the right seat, and you are under about 46 or so, leave.

People will be staying here, but they are probably all lineholding captains. Junior captains and most FO's will be leaving, and leaving in droves.

Reasons: Obviously, the pay and benefits are inferior to pretty much everywhere other than the regionals and the REALLY $hitty places (like Allegiant). We have a REALLY young pilot group, meaning as a 35 year old here with about 2 years seniority, I'll NEVER be very senior. Trust me, the senior guys here have it as good as any 777 Legacy captain, with the exception of pay and benefits. They work 9-10 days a month doing Carribbean turns for about 85+ hours of pay. Chances are, however, unless you are hired here VERY young, you will NEVER be in that position.

That being said, if you get stuck here for 20-30 years, you are going to be much better off than you will be at any regional. This is NOT a terrible place to get stuck for 20 or 30 years. You will NOT be as well off as you would be at a legacy, but it ain't that bad. Any legacy would be better, but you'll be OK here. I took the job knowing that if I got stuck there for 30 years, I'd be just fine. That doesn't mean I'm not looking to leave for something better, though.

Bottom line, if Jetblue has a base somewhere you want to live, it's not that bad a deal. I'd recommend you keep trying for a legacy until the math says not to, but if you end up stuck at Jetblue, there are a lot worse situations to be in.

agree 100%

 

[General Lee]

Good God, you again. So you are telling us our pay and benefits are not equal to that of the legacy airlines? Tell us something we don't know First Officer Obvious. I'm pretty sure we ALL know that.

Working for most major airlines that are profitable, growing, and selling their own tickets is like being married to a super-model. Maybe my super-model has tits that are too small, and the fir on her beaver is a less preferential color, but the fact is that you are married to a fat waffle house waitress. Fact. I wouldn't FCK your wife with your little hotdog. Fact. I would NEVER leave my job for yours. Fact.

When you have a job that I would consider taking myself, I will consider giving your opinion the smallest possible amount of respect. You need to worry about your own career and let us worry about ours.

You are nothing. You are a little tiny man with a sub-par, sub-contract regional airline job that is so insecure with his career that he has to come on to this board and belittle others and denigrate their careers.

Get angry muuucccchhhh? Wow. Look here sonny, you and your E190 are not much bigger than what Rod supposedly flies, so try not to make fun too much.. But, you are HUGE in Martha's Vinyard or Nantucket, so that must make you and your little hotdog feel AWESOME. Enjoy it!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pilotpayne]

Get angry muuucccchhhh? Wow. Look here sonny, you and your E190 are not much bigger than what Rod supposedly flies, so try not to make fun too much.. But, you are HUGE in Martha's Vinyard or Nantucket, so that must make you and your little hotdog feel AWESOME. Enjoy it!


Bye Bye---General Lee

So here comes a Delta ( the best pilots in the world) guy to bash the JetBlue guy who is fighting
with the regional ( who dosent't even work at jetBlue) guy who is bashing JetBlue?

Wow.

 

[Smarta$$]

Get angry muuucccchhhh? Wow. Look here sonny, you and your E190 are not much bigger than what Rod supposedly flies, so try not to make fun too much.. But, you are HUGE in Martha's Vinyard or Nantucket, so that must make you and your little hotdog feel AWESOME. Enjoy it!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Alright General, you don't at all understand the context of my post or the history Jrod has about making denigrating comments about our job or our career.

And you should know and understand the distinction between flying a "regional" airplane and flying for a "regional AIRLINE". But you have a long history of big airplane SJS and looking down on people that don't have widebodies in their fleet, so I will consider your post exactly what it is and understand who it is coming from.

 

[General Lee]

Alright General, you don't at all understand the context of my post or the history Jrod has about making denigrating comments about our job or our career.

And you should know and understand the distinction between flying a "regional" airplane and flying for a "regional AIRLINE". But you have a long history of big airplane SJS and looking down on people that don't have widebodies in their fleet, so I will consider your post exactly what it is and understand who it is coming from.

Good, do that. I just read your post and thought it was WAAAAYYY too harsh on Rod. Gimmee a break. "You are nothing." Really? And he is correct about a lot of people from the LCCs will be looking at the 3 legacies as they ramp up hiring again. Why is that wrong? It might help you out a lot.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Smarta$$]

Good, do that. I just read your post and thought it was WAAAAYYY too harsh on Rod. Gimmee a break. "You are nothing." Really? And he is correct about a lot of people from the LCCs will be looking at the 3 legacies as they ramp up hiring again. Why is that wrong? It might help you out a lot.


Bye Bye---General Lee

As a stand alone post, my post would be way too hard on Jrod. Taken in the proper context and history, it was right on the mark.

You and Jrod both make disparaging comments about other peoples jobs and careers. We can't all work for DAL. We can't all work for AA. It might shock you, but we can't all even work for DAL, AA and UAL. And some may not even want to. The point is, let others live their lives and let others worry about there own career choices without feeling that you have to give everyone your 2 cents when no-one asked for it. You are not a superior person because you work for DAL, you were hired at a different time in history or took a different path in life.

The fact that you and Jrod need to interject your uninvited disparaging comments so often about the careers of others says way more about you than it does about us.

 

[clickclickboom]

ASA

I am not miserable.. I love my job and career.. In all honesty I make a very good living.

The problem is that after nearly 10 years we are STILL not industry average and in the last three to five years even with improvements are still trending down..

In a traditional career the " just leave " argument is very valid because you can market your skills, longevity, knowledge, etc to obtain a comparable or better position.

One shining example may be your wife. 160k while others in the department make more. Maybe that new hospital is looking for a specialist? 200k there you go here is your corner office maam.

In the airline pilot world she would have to resign her position and start at the new place cleaning bedpans for $12 an hour. That sure changes things

Thats why your argument is just plain comical. I have a very large portion of my career already invested here at blue and most importantly was told my our top management and all of the revolving door cronies that we were different, nimble, had values, could sieze opportunity, that our hard work would be rewarded. So far all I have to show is less than any ohter group in our ELT defined peerset.

 

[BeachBummer]

I ran the numbers recently for a 39yo 190capt. If he goes to DAL or UAL next year he still comes out on top by over 1million. That's assuming he never touches a wide body.

I'm 34 an 08' hire and I'm out at the first call from DAL or AA. It's not that I don't like JB, it's that I'll make $$5million more over the next 30 years at those other companies. The total difference in 401k including compouding interest is over $$2million.

had to correct that. sorry if the original statement was misleading.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I vacillate day by day, but today I'm feeling like the grass is not greener over there and i am probably better off staying where I am. Looks like I have another month or two before I need to decide officially.

 

[johnsonrod]

I vacillate day by day, but today I'm feeling like the grass is not greener over there and i am probably better off staying where I am. Looks like I have another month or two before I need to decide officially.

Why not give yourself more options? Although 1-2 months is a tight decision window, you should already have apps out to Spirit, Atlas (if the freight dog lifestyle appeals to you) and the legacies. All but Delta are hiring right now I believe (not sure about SWA).

IF the pilot shortage problem does come to fruition for the major airlines, you could possibly have a few different choices given your background. Regardless, you will feel better with more options...

 

[pilotpayne]

I vacillate day by day, but today I'm feeling like the grass is not greener over there and i am probably better off staying where I am. Looks like I have another month or two before I need to decide officially.

Where are you coming from?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Where are you coming from?

Part 91, Fortune 500, light jet.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Part 91, Fortune 500, light jet.

If you live where you want to live, make decent money, have good benefits/retirement, and are over 45 you are NUTS if you leave for JB

Maybe not a legacy if you get in early enough, but a LCC? You're an idiot if you leave. Sorry, man, there's no other way to put it.

If there are problems, (bad pay, sked, benefits, etc.) it's a different story. But if you are happy now, I can pretty much guarantee you will NOT be happier at JB.

My bet is you'll be commuting, gone a lot more, working a hell of a lot harder, and home way less. Lots depends on your current job. How much do you fly now? What's your pay? Benefits? How old are you? Like where you live or want to move?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Ok, so here's the deal. I fly for a large corporate department. I spent about 8 years in Part 121 (CHQ, AirTran, USAir, PSA, Comair - lots of furloughs) and then another almost 9 years here. I am a light jet Captain and I don't really mind it. I like being a corporate pilot for the most part. I'm paid a little over $100,000 per year with another $8000 in stock per year and up to a 20% bonus. Health insurance and retirement are about the same as jetBlue. I drive to work and park 10 feet from the plane.

We have a scheduled rotation of 9 days off a month. Of course being corporate I'm home quite a bit (whether on-call, or an easy out and back etc). Over the last few years management has changed that schedule several times trying to squeeze blood from a turnip (we're very short pilots). So far in 2013 our schedule has been suspended 7 times due to staffing. That means if you had days off, they were taken away. Two weeks out of every ten (so about every two months) you have what they call a "flex" period. 14 days during which you will get 48 hours off, but you don't know when they will happen - so you can't really plan for them. Vacations wont be approved during the flex weeks either. When I DO work, it's a little like being on reserve forever. I know when my work days are but I don't know where I'm going or how long i'll be gone for until the night before the trip.

I do all my own flight planning, performance, weight and balance, etc.

In 2010 the company laid off 10 pilots. Some were very junior, some were very senior (one with 30 years seniority). There is no recall for those pilots. That really got to me... I couldn't believe that after being somewhere 20...25...30 years you could just be let go with no chance for recall!

My immediate supervisor and I don't get along very well so I feel like I always have to be looking over my shoulder.

I don't know why I originally applied to jetBlue but I did, and now i'm in phase 2 probably a few months from a class date. I'm not new to the airlines, but it's been a long time. I only spent 3 years at USAir so my memories of airline life aren't colored by fantastic major airline contracts -- I understand what it's like.

If anything I'm concerned about the challenging commute from my home to BOS or JFK for a year or two until we move to a domicile. (Cost of living here is cheap - makes sense to stay for a few years while my pay is low)

I have a 7 year old at home, and every time I think I've made my decision to leave this department behind, I realize how much less time I will have at home with him and that is what is giving me the cold feet. I think once i'm in domicile i'll actually have a BETTER QOL than I do here, but who knows when that will happen?

Bottom line. My job isn't in jeopardy today, but i'm 40 and if I'm going to make a move I need to probably make it soon. I interviewed at SWA last year, but was unsuccessful. AA, UAL, and DAL aren't calling. But jetBlue called so now it looks like i'll have a decision to make. None of my corporate pilot friends can give me good advice because most of them have never flown for the airlines. -- None of my airline pilot friends can give me any good advise because most of them haven't flown corporate! (lots of former 135 guys, but very few pure corporate and even fewer Fortune 500)

I've always been kind of a square peg in a round hole here. I missed the structured world of airline flying so much that I involved myself in the "standards" committee at our department. It's better now than it was 9 years ago, but still pretty loose and easy compared to the airlines.

That's about it. My whole life story.

 

[crash312]

That doesn't sound all that stable to me, especially the furlough/layoff out of seniority.

You've probably read enough here and been through enough (121) to know Jetblue is far from the perfect airline, but it sounds like a better deal than what you have now.

It would take 3-5 years here to make as much as you are now depending on hiring and how much you want to work. I'm not sure what your housing quality of life is or what your expectations are but a large number of pilots that are based in BOS live in southern NH (can make a 2 hour reserve callout) and the prices compared to Boston are decent, but not exactly cheap. Lots of good towns with good schools to choose from. I would look into it and see if Jetblue BOS based and moving right away might work. A ton more time at home with the family than commuting to reserve.

Posters here will bloviate about how they wouldn't let there friends come here...or how a regional guy should just wait for DAL...which is horse********************t. It sounds like you are at a high risk of having to start over at some point anyway. Why not now? Come to Jetblue and wait it out.

You can keep your apps out and A.) get some recent 121 experience and get hired by a competitor (will be plenty of that soon), B.) Jetblue turns things around drastically (with your help by voting for a Union) and you stay, C.) gets bought/merged with a decent integration, D.) gets bought /merged with a staple, or E.) goes out of business in a few years.

With the exception of option E above you probably end up in a better situation.

There is nothing wrong with hanging out here for a few years hoping it either gets better or someone else hires you. Just don't drink the bluejuice, please!

There are people on this board that hope to dissuade every single pilot to not apply/work here in the hopes the company will change things...anybody with half a brain knows that will never happen (at least not in the near future). It is up to us that already work here to do the dirty work.

 

[CapnVegetto]

ok, so here's the deal. I fly for a large corporate department. I spent about 8 years in part 121 (chq, airtran, usair, psa, comair - lots of furloughs) and then another almost 9 years here. I am a light jet captain and i don't really mind it. I like being a corporate pilot for the most part. I'm paid a little over $100,000 per year with another $8000 in stock per year and up to a 20% bonus. Health insurance and retirement are about the same as jetblue. I drive to work and park 10 feet from the plane.

Hearing this makes me think you'd be a moron to leave, especially if you like where you live and the cost of living is low. But let's move on.

we have a scheduled rotation of 9 days off a month. Of course being corporate i'm home quite a bit (whether on-call, or an easy out and back etc). Over the last few years management has changed that schedule several times trying to squeeze blood from a turnip (we're very short pilots). So far in 2013 our schedule has been suspended 7 times due to staffing. That means if you had days off, they were taken away. Two weeks out of every ten (so about every two months) you have what they call a "flex" period. 14 days during which you will get 48 hours off, but you don't know when they will happen - so you can't really plan for them. Vacations wont be approved during the flex weeks either. When i do work, it's a little like being on reserve forever. I know when my work days are but i don't know where i'm going or how long i'll be gone for until the night before the trip.

Doesn't sound much different from airline life. You have more HARD days off, but you are gone a hell of a lot more. If you are on reserve, (which you will be for a while, as you know), you'll be doing the same amount of sitting around, only you won't be doing it at home. You'll be doing it in a crashpad away from home for more than half the month (if you commute, which it sounds like you're going to do), for less than half the pay. A lot of that is personal preference. I don't mind being on reserve (corporate on call) if I'm doing it at home and I still have a fair amount of hard days off to plan stuff. Some people hate it. Sounds like you're not a fan of it.

i do all my own flight planning, performance, weight and balance, etc.

Who cares? Who would you rather do it? You, (where it'll be done right), or incompetent a$$ dispatchers that file you through thunderstorms with min fuel because they have no experience other than sitting in front of a damn computer and feeding in canned routes? And then if you want to change something, you have to deal with 20 different fcking departments to get approval because every airline is doing everything they can to erode captain's authority. Personally, I'd rather do it myself.

in 2010 the company laid off 10 pilots. Some were very junior, some were very senior (one with 30 years seniority). There is no recall for those pilots. That really got to me... I couldn't believe that after being somewhere 20...25...30 years you could just be let go with no chance for recall!

Welcome to the real world. Under a union, you have seniority. in the real world, you are kept around based on how good you are at your job and how well you get along with people, not SOLEY based on how long you've been there. If you've been somewhere 30 years, and you're a f-ckup, it doesn't matter if you've been there 30 years. It might not be right, but that's how the rest of the working world does it. Outside the airlines, get used to it. Of course, the advantage is that WITHOUT the seniority system, your experience actually counts for something. You don't have to start over if you leave. There's good and bad either way.

my immediate supervisor and i don't get along very well so i feel like i always have to be looking over my shoulder.

Not good, but you won't lose that in the airlines. Everything you do is scrutinized if you are a PIC. If you're an SIC, it's a little easier.

i don't know why i originally applied to jetblue but i did, and now i'm in phase 2 probably a few months from a class date. I'm not new to the airlines, but it's been a long time. I only spent 3 years at usair so my memories of airline life aren't colored by fantastic major airline contracts -- i understand what it's like.

Jetblue is definitely in the bottom tier, but it's way better than any regional and you will do OK there. Bad thing is at 40 years old, you will NEVER be senior here. At best, you'll be a mid seniority A320 captain and it'll take a LONG time.

if anything i'm concerned about the challenging commute from my home to bos or jfk for a year or two until we move to a domicile. (cost of living here is cheap - makes sense to stay for a few years while my pay is low)

If this is the case, you will be commuting to reserve for less than half the money and the best you'll do is mid lineholder. It'll be at least a couple of years before you are even back to what you are making now, and even then you will be WORKING A LOT HARDER for it. Eventually, when you upgrade, you'll be making more money, but you'll be gone a LOT more and will be working a LOT harder. You will have a hard schedule, though. More days off, less days at home. More money, a LOT more work. What's your poison?

i have a 7 year old at home, and every time i think i've made my decision to leave this department behind, i realize how much less time i will have at home with him and that is what is giving me the cold feet. I think once i'm in domicile i'll actually have a better qol than i do here, but who knows when that will happen?

That is VERY debatable. It depends on where you live and how quickly you gain seniority. You'll never be super senior enough as a captain to do just the day turns, so you'll be doing 3 days and 4 days, with about 14-15 nights a month at home at best. Reserve might be more, but it might be less in the summer. If you live in a low cost of living area now, you might make more money in Jetblue but if you're paying double what you're paying now for mortgage, bills, taxes, etc, what's the point? You're just working more for nothing.

bottom line. My job isn't in jeopardy today, but i'm 40 and if i'm going to make a move i need to probably make it soon. I interviewed at swa last year, but was unsuccessful. Aa, ual, and dal aren't calling. But jetblue called so now it looks like i'll have a decision to make. None of my corporate pilot friends can give me good advice because most of them have never flown for the airlines. -- none of my airline pilot friends can give me any good advise because most of them haven't flown corporate! (lots of former 135 guys, but very few pure corporate and even fewer fortune 500)

That is really more personal taste than anything. I can tell you probably like the structured, scheduled environment more, whereas I would MUCH rather be doing corporate. That's just basically whatever you like more, and totally up to your tastes. Just weigh all the options. I'm commuting to a line now, I make good money, but if I found a good corporate job, I'd quit tomorrow. That's just something you'll have to work out for yourself. Just be careful not to get 'grass in greener' syndrome too much. It always looks better from the outside. Then you get there and it's not what you thought it'd be.

i've always been kind of a square peg in a round hole here. I missed the structured world of airline flying so much that i involved myself in the "standards" committee at our department. It's better now than it was 9 years ago, but still pretty loose and easy compared to the airlines.

That's about it. My whole life story.

good luck

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

FA, come to JB and help us bring a union onto the property. In the long run, we will ALL be better off!

 

[JA-601]

Ok, so here's the deal. I fly for a large corporate department. I spent about 8 years in Part 121 (CHQ, AirTran, USAir, PSA, Comair - lots of furloughs) and then another almost 9 years here. I am a light jet Captain and I don't really mind it. I like being a corporate pilot for the most part. I'm paid a little over $100,000 per year with another $8000 in stock per year and up to a 20% bonus. Health insurance and retirement are about the same as jetBlue. I drive to work and park 10 feet from the plane.

We have a scheduled rotation of 9 days off a month. Of course being corporate I'm home quite a bit (whether on-call, or an easy out and back etc). Over the last few years management has changed that schedule several times trying to squeeze blood from a turnip (we're very short pilots). So far in 2013 our schedule has been suspended 7 times due to staffing. That means if you had days off, they were taken away. Two weeks out of every ten (so about every two months) you have what they call a "flex" period. 14 days during which you will get 48 hours off, but you don't know when they will happen - so you can't really plan for them. Vacations wont be approved during the flex weeks either. When I DO work, it's a little like being on reserve forever. I know when my work days are but I don't know where I'm going or how long i'll be gone for until the night before the trip.

I do all my own flight planning, performance, weight and balance, etc.

In 2010 the company laid off 10 pilots. Some were very junior, some were very senior (one with 30 years seniority). There is no recall for those pilots. That really got to me... I couldn't believe that after being somewhere 20...25...30 years you could just be let go with no chance for recall!

My immediate supervisor and I don't get along very well so I feel like I always have to be looking over my shoulder.

I don't know why I originally applied to jetBlue but I did, and now i'm in phase 2 probably a few months from a class date. I'm not new to the airlines, but it's been a long time. I only spent 3 years at USAir so my memories of airline life aren't colored by fantastic major airline contracts -- I understand what it's like.

If anything I'm concerned about the challenging commute from my home to BOS or JFK for a year or two until we move to a domicile. (Cost of living here is cheap - makes sense to stay for a few years while my pay is low)

I have a 7 year old at home, and every time I think I've made my decision to leave this department behind, I realize how much less time I will have at home with him and that is what is giving me the cold feet. I think once i'm in domicile i'll actually have a BETTER QOL than I do here, but who knows when that will happen?

Bottom line. My job isn't in jeopardy today, but i'm 40 and if I'm going to make a move I need to probably make it soon. I interviewed at SWA last year, but was unsuccessful. AA, UAL, and DAL aren't calling. But jetBlue called so now it looks like i'll have a decision to make. None of my corporate pilot friends can give me good advice because most of them have never flown for the airlines. -- None of my airline pilot friends can give me any good advise because most of them haven't flown corporate! (lots of former 135 guys, but very few pure corporate and even fewer Fortune 500)

I've always been kind of a square peg in a round hole here. I missed the structured world of airline flying so much that I involved myself in the "standards" committee at our department. It's better now than it was 9 years ago, but still pretty loose and easy compared to the airlines.

That's about it. My whole life story.

Ya I know how you feel I left corp. in '07 to come to JB........I had been laid off twice in 6 months from one GIV job, and one GV. I wanted something more stable, schedule, and not to be gone two weeks at a time.

Now having said that. That is what I got, but not much more. Im a fairly senior A320 FO that has alot to complain about JB, most of all the lies from the ELT, the games, and watch what i say not what i do ELT members.....

They have turned this company into a cash cow for themselves ( with their side business' all doing business with JB ) yet cutting anywhere they can on the pilot and FA side........while trying to spin it "it a good thing for you" which really tells me they are just liars and dont give two ********************s about the employees......

So now Im actually looking at going back to corporate. I'm still current in the GV and would leave for the right gig.........

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Ya I know how you feel I left corp. in '07 to come to JB........I had been laid off twice in 6 months from one GIV job, and one GV. I wanted something more stable, schedule, and not to be gone two weeks at a time.

Now having said that. That is what I got, but not much more. Im a fairly senior A320 FO that has alot to complain about JB, most of all the lies from the ELT, the games, and watch what i say not what i do ELT members.....

They have turned this company into a cash cow for themselves ( with their side business' all doing business with JB ) yet cutting anywhere they can on the pilot and FA side........while trying to spin it "it a good thing for you" which really tells me they are just liars and dont give two ********************s about the employees......

So now Im actually looking at going back to corporate. I'm still current in the GV and would leave for the right gig.........

I think you should leave. The grass is definitely greener.