JetBlue ALPA drive

[tailhookah]

So you voted for JBPA then? An in-house would be a toothless tiger with money. Talk to the Air Tran guys. I'm not in love with ALPA but it's the only way to go IMHO. That said if you want an in-house, now is your chance to start one.

Wrong. JBPA would be an in-house toothless tiger w/ NO MONEY. That's why the company will start to support an in-house just as it looks like the Alpa drive is taking off. They want an in-house that wont have a war chest and decades of experience under it's belt. With an in-house everything is ala carte and will have to be paid for. Until a CBA is signed and ratified by a majority no one and I repeat NO ONE is required by law to pay a cent of union dues. After the ratification, only then is it considered a closed shop and by law everyone has to pay dues.

When an in-house gets voted in, the best thing a company can do is stall and get the pilots fighting each other over dues and direction of the MEC while nothing happens and the guys who do pay dues get frustrated and stop paying dues... eventually Alpa would be voted in but then you'd have all those dues and years wasted when it would've been much easier, smarter and financially savy to just vote it the best organization... Alpa. It has all the tools and the war chest from day 1 to help...

SWAPA only worked b/c Herb backed it... Herb is smart and understands the process and outsmarted his pilots by doing this... he kept SWA at sub-par wages for three decades under this plan only to surpass the Alpa carriers in post 9/11 bk courts while everyone was getting crushed except for SWA due to a shot in the dark that paid off... fuel hedges.

Facts fellas...

'tail

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Curious what the Colgan pilots think of having ALPA voted on the property... shortly before the crash.....

 

[Regul8r]

Regul8r....

Sounds like somebody got fired for doing bad.....ALPA can't defend stupidity, even at all costs.

I'm not going to line-item rebut my statements with you until you comprehend what I said......Barney Frank said it best....."it would be like debating a table!" Your SWA arguments are vague at best and tough to solidify your point.

Personal attacks on Flight Info? Well played! You, sir, must feel superior, huh?

 

[Regul8r]

I forgot about the WAR chest! And what of this coveted, highly lauded WAR chest? Does it indemnify the airlines from the confines and restrictions of the RLA?

Guys, if in-house unions are doomed from the get-go, how come we have SWAPA, APA, and the UPS Pilots union?

They don't make good fodder for all the ALPA propaganda.


(By the way, WAR chest sounds so COOL and SEXY! Nice marketing, guys!)

 

[B6Busdriver]

Wrong. JBPA would be an in-house toothless tiger w/ NO MONEY. That's why the company will start to support an in-house just as it looks like the Alpa drive is taking off. They want an in-house that wont have a war chest and decades of experience under it's belt. With an in-house everything is ala carte and will have to be paid for. Until a CBA is signed and ratified by a majority no one and I repeat NO ONE is required by law to pay a cent of union dues. After the ratification, only then is it considered a closed shop and by law everyone has to pay dues.

When an in-house gets voted in, the best thing a company can do is stall and get the pilots fighting each other over dues and direction of the MEC while nothing happens and the guys who do pay dues get frustrated and stop paying dues... eventually Alpa would be voted in but then you'd have all those dues and years wasted when it would've been much easier, smarter and financially savy to just vote it the best organization... Alpa. It has all the tools and the war chest from day 1 to help...

SWAPA only worked b/c Herb backed it... Herb is smart and understands the process and outsmarted his pilots by doing this... he kept SWA at sub-par wages for three decades under this plan only to surpass the Alpa carriers in post 9/11 bk courts while everyone was getting crushed except for SWA due to a shot in the dark that paid off... fuel hedges.

Facts fellas...

'tail

woops....toothless tiger withOUT.....simple typo

 

[jonjuan]

Best Post of the Year......hands down!!!:laugh:

If you're comparing it to marriage, then ALPA is a wife swappin' swingers club.

"Open your eyes. I'm talkin' 'bout wife swappin'."

 

[BeachBummer]

Yea, well at the swapem club they pass out condoms. Right now JB pilots are bare backin hoe's hoping for the best. Eh, couldn't happen to me... 3times... could it?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

If you're comparing it to marriage, then ALPA is a wife swappin' swingers club.

"Open your eyes. I'm talkin' 'bout wife swappin'."

Hey now.....Who's in it to win it??

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Personal attacks on Flight Info? Well played! You, sir, must feel superior, huh?

You act as if a personal attack is new to this place, well, John MClain (Bruce Willis) said it best in the '80s "Welcome to the party pal......"

Tell me where the personal attack took place? Was it you who got canned? If not, then throttle back....If so, then stop disputing over how you got treated if you want privacy.

You want to fight without bringing a valid argument. It would be like debating a table.....no substance, no fact, just a lot of silence because you don't even understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Why waste time organizing? Y'all going to be APA members soon anyway, so what's the point.

 

[Dizel8]

Personally I am hoping SWAPA, but then again, I would be proud to join the AAviators!

Of course, either way, we will get hosed!

 

[Regul8r]

You act as if a personal attack is new to this place, well, John MClain (Bruce Willis) said it best in the '80s "Welcome to the party pal......"

Tell me where the personal attack took place? Was it you who got canned? If not, then throttle back....If so, then stop disputing over how you got treated if you want privacy.

You want to fight without bringing a valid argument. It would be like debating a table.....no substance, no fact, just a lot of silence because you don't even understand what I'm trying to say.

No animus here...just saw the comparison to a table is all and figured it was diverging down the typical FI path. Either way, I've seen many good people canned over what I would consider questionable circumstances. In many of those instances, ALPA's was the typical "we don't defend bad pilots". I don't hold ALPA accountable for it...******************** happens. But it does irk me when I see the ALPA chest thumpers espousing the same tired rhetoric about needing ALPA in your corner if that day comes. ALPA didn't do any favors for the guys/gals I've seen let go. And I'm not surprised either, what do you REALLY expect for 2% of your pay? Ron Shapiro as your defense attorney? You get what you pay for...

Back to my point...ALPA is all talk and hot air...a bunch of politicians, and bad ones at that. Not only that, but they're representing competing airlines as well! Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Stay in-house and rest assured that your Union is worrying about your best interests and your best interests alone.

 

[aewanabe]

Selective quoting is fun

Vote ALPA and we'll have a better BUF layover hotel? Is that really your sales pitch?

How about vote ALPA and have a contract, and a say, instead of the hopelessly mangled FSM debacle? Conveniently ignored that part didn't ya?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Stay in-house and rest assured that your Union is worrying about your best interests and your best interests alone.

Yet the in house effort failed...

Why?


How long will it take an in house union to become effective? Who at Jetblue would be the leaders of this in house union?

Is USAPA a good or bad example of going in house?

What would the dues rate be at an jetblue in house?

 

[OurMoney1]

The Jetblue experiment is over.

You guys are sitting targets. Your own puppet committees are resigning. Time is not on your side to mess with an in house. If someone doesn't eat you in the next 18 months your management will probably farm out some of your flying (scope) to arrest your rising costs.

Unions are bitter sweet but I can hardly imagine a carrier in need of a CBA more than you folks right now. Stop hoping and hire ALPA already, you owe it to your family and your career to not take any more chances.

 

[pilotyip]

your management will probably farm out some of your flying (scope) to arrest your rising costs.

And arresting rising costs in order to keep everyone employed is bad in what way?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And arresting rising costs in order to keep everyone employed is bad in what way?

The is the problem with our version of capitalism....

it must either grow to keep cost down, and if that is not working.... say this decade... then cost must be slashed.....


on a planet with limited resources we need sustainability.....not an an unrealistic growth plan....

 

[Regul8r]

If someone doesn't eat you in the next 18 months your management will probably farm out some of your flying (scope) to arrest your rising costs.

Fear mongering aside...regionals (farmed out flying) account for over 50% of domestic flying. And this all happened with ALPA's oversight. What assurances do the jetBlue pilots have that their flying won't get farmed out with ALPA at the helm?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fear mongering aside...regionals (farmed out flying) account for over 50% of domestic flying. And this all happened with ALPA's oversight. What assurances do the jetBlue pilots have that their flying won't get farmed out with ALPA at the helm?

As you probably don't know, the choice to trade scope for other contractual imporvements or protections was done thru membership ratification.....

Are you saying the jB pilots won't have MR and some force in ALPA will do what it has never done and give jb pilot scope away?

What kind of scope does the jb have now?

 

[Regul8r]

As you probably don't know, the choice to trade scope for other contractual imporvements or protections was done thru membership ratification...

Correct! History proves that ALPA hasn't been able to protect the pilots from themselves in the past...how will jetBlue be any different?