JetBlue ALPA drive

[OurMoney1]

You guys aren't thinking rationally. Once you let in farmed out flying will never go away, infact it will increase. Your short sighted when you say "yes but it will keep others employeed." Thats silly speak. That flying belongs to Jetblue crews who want to grow, upgrade, begin retirement planning, holidays off, and watch their careers mature as the decades pass.

I hear your arguments but they dont have any significant merit. A CBA is needed on your property tomorrow. You are professionals, I have had you in my jumpseat, I have talked with you, I have heard about your wifes, your kids, your life....wake up and sign up! You need protections from the boardroom antics that your leadership team is dreaming up. YOU NEED ALPA!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Correct! History proves that ALPA hasn't been able to protect the pilots from themselves in the past...how will jetBlue be any different?

I would rather gamble on my union than on management promises.....but that's just me!!

 

[pilotyip]

right on

Correct! History proves that ALPA hasn't been able to protect the pilots from themselves in the past...how will jetBlue be any different?

I thing the guy is on to something

The is the problem with our version of capitalism....

it must either grow to keep cost down, and if that is not working.... say this decade... then cost must be slashed.....


on a planet with limited resources we need sustainability.....not an an unrealistic growth plan....

What would the other version of capitalism be? how do you keep costs down, when you have built in cost growth with employee expectations of higher income. New carriers now enter the markets with lower costs, consumers vote with their dollars, and old airline is no longer profitable.

 

[fifty30retard]

You guys aren't thinking rationally. Once you let in farmed out flying will never go away, infact it will increase. Your short sighted when you say "yes but it will keep others employeed." Thats silly speak. That flying belongs to Jetblue crews who want to grow, upgrade, begin retirement planning, holidays off, and watch their careers mature as the decades pass.

I hear your arguments but they dont have any significant merit. A CBA is needed on your property tomorrow. You are professionals, I have had you in my jumpseat, I have talked with you, I have heard about your wifes, your kids, your life....wake up and sign up! You need protections from the boardroom antics that your leadership team is dreaming up. YOU NEED ALPA!

Many of us are thinking rationally. I believe the post you are referring to was written by Pilotyip....a board troll that loves to espouse his political views and general opinions on anything. The thing is he does not even work for JetBlue! Nevermind the troll.

You are right about farming out flying, many here still don't get it but the union drive has wheels.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I thing the guy is on to something


What would the other version of capitalism be? how do you keep costs down, when you have built in cost growth with employee expectations of higher income. New carriers now enter the markets with lower costs, consumers vote with their dollars, and old airline is no longer profitable.

Yip.....all due respect.....It's guys like you who are the supply to the new entrants rather than fight for ALL comers to have high salaries for their pilots. You'd rather slog around and say "I'm just happy to have a job". You are a pilot, not a capitalist.

 

[pilotyip]

Wishing you the best

Yip.....all due respect.....It's guys like you who are the supply to the new entrants rather than fight for ALL comers to have high salaries for their pilots. You'd rather slog around and say "I'm just happy to have a job". You are a pilot, not a capitalist.

yea you are probably right. I think when a company gets as big as JB's they need a union so there is one voice with which management has to deal. But to think you can survive by getting what you want, more pay and more days off, and making your airline non-competitive, well I think that is a fairy tale. I am only saying there may be unintended consequences of your actions, and I just trying to be a good CRM guy about going off the end of the runway. I have no dog in this fight and my experiences at now defunct union airlines are only my experiences. But I saw a lot of this we will show management who is boss, but that was many jobs ago, I sure today's union promoters would never think like that. BTW My family and friends are all consumers of airline travel and screw them, it is about you guys in the cockpit. Do consumers of air travel have no say in your battle plans?

 

[skywav8r]

Many people on these boards blame ALPA for farming out flying, bad contracts, bankruptcy ect... The reality is that WE are to blame. WE are the ones who are ALPA. WE are the ones who make up our MEC and LEC.

ALPA national really doesn't have all the power we think they have. They are a central office that houses the lawyers and specialists we rely on. They are the central office that we blame for all our problems.

To correct our problems EACH INDIVIDUAL MEC has to grow some balls and fight for a better contract, better scope. I blame my LEC and MEC for scope problems and lack of pay restoration since bankruptcy. I also commend them for at least getting us some pay increases during the merger and some other scope sensitive issues that have come up recently. I have high expectations of my union officers for 2012.

ALPA, APA, SWAPA are all made up of pilots. The difference is that APA and SWAPA are unions fighting for their own pilot group. These two didn't have the capital to fight a big fight when they first started up. I don't know the history or the numbers to back this up but its my belief that if a big fight started when they were new unions they wouldn't of had the money or resources to fight it. (hopefully I'm not speaking outta my a$$ so feel free to correct me)

If SWA starts to lag in pay over the next few years are we going to blame SWAPA? I don't think so. They have done a great job and face tough times trying to squeeze any more money from management. I interviewed once at SWA and did not get the job. (only 2 of 22 got hired that day!!) I really bought into the kool-aid there. I still do. They are a great company who takes care of their peeps and I would love to have worked there. APA had a tool running the show for awhile. Now they seem to be heading in the right direction. The pilot group has spoken and forced a shift in leadership just like a union is supposed to do. What I do not know is how do these smaller unions with less money in the bank afford the same protections as a larger union? Do you pay a fee to use the ALPA folks? Do You have great lawyers on retainer? Do you have medical staff, schedulers, ex-management on your payroll?? I don't know if what I have is better than your system or not but I am happy with what I have. I think ALPA is the best of a necessary evil (union) which pilots require.

ALPA should be thought of as a lot of mini SWAPA's and APA's around North America. These groups come together to form ALPA National. The benefit of ALPA comes with its size. More folks bring in more money and more brains. You can joke about the warchest and all that other crap that ALPA spews out to try and get new members. I think they are horrible salesmen. But you can't dispute the fact that our collective dues provide some useful tools.

I am not an ALPA officer or volunteer, just a line guy spouting my opinion.


Hoserpilot

 

[Blue Dude]

BTW My family and friends are all consumers of airline travel and screw them, it is about you guys in the cockpit. Do consumers of air travel have no say in your battle plans?

Just a gentle reminder: Your friends and family are far from being screwed. Airfares in real dollars have been dropping for decades. Must my pay do the same, or can the company consider my pay as a cost of doing business for services rendered and instead compete in other areas? I'm more comfortable with the notion of negotiating pay/benefit cuts and freezes as deemed necessary than simply having them imposed. Take it or leave it contract terms just don't cut it anymore.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Correct! History proves that ALPA hasn't been able to protect the pilots from themselves in the past...how will jetBlue be any different?

You are suggesting that "ALPA" over ride the will of the membership in terms of membership ratification. Meaning that pilots can't be given information and make decisions for themselves....

Does Captains Authority have any application?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Not to steal a thread creep but I have a question for those people at SWA (Wave, Luv, Gup etc.).

Let me set this up.....this is not a dig. When age 65 was discussed, do you feel it was a majority at Swapa who wanted age 65? My question is making a statement, it doesn't matter which union you are in....either in house or large multi-airline.....the boys at the top are steering the ship and us line dogs usually get the engine room.

That being said....I would rather trust the Captain (union) than the guy who owns the ship (airline management) when seas are rough.