JetBlue ALPA drive

[Flopgut]

What is management supposed to do?

Get better! That's it. They need to earn thier paycheck just like the workers. "Kill new meat" is the saying. Mgt culture has gone too far. Look, there is no real problem with customers and there is no real problem with labor. You can overlay SWA [there are several others] mgt onto almost any going corporate concern and the thing will run. Problem is you can't get too many mgrs to agree that they will have to do what it takes to run like that. In most cases, it means mgt will have to do thier jobs better for less money and take a long term vision with thier own careers. You can't get today's MBA swine to think like that.....

 

[kommutrdog]

Problem is you can't get too many mgrs to agree that they will have to do what it takes to run like that. In most cases, it means mgt will have to do thier jobs better for less money and take a long term vision with thier own careers. You can't get today's MBA swine to think like that.....

Bingo.

Game. Set. Match.

End of thread.

 

[pilotyip]

Get better! That's it. .....swine to think like that.....

So ALPA going to help them get better?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So ALPA going to help them get better?

Airline Pilots do not run Airlines...

 

[pilotyip]

Airline Pilots do not run Airlines...

True, management runs the airlines FAA likes it that way. Pilot don't like how airlines are run and want ot change how airlines are to their benefit. So it is then true that pilots want to run the airline. And they will use the threat of a shutdown in order to get it run the way they want.

 

[BeachBummer]

And they will use the threat of a shutdown in order to get it run the way they want.

And managment does the same thing, knowing that we cannot start over from the same position...

CAN WE LET THIS THREAD DIE.

 

[pilotyip]

How are things going to improve under the current "system?" Did anyone answer the question that started this thread?

 

[PCL_128]

With that insight you should move into management and make the company a better place

Unfortunately, it never works that way. People that go into management to make things better always end up bitter, angry, and disillusioned. In truth, the only way to make things better is to get involved in the union and push management to improve things.

So ALPA going to help them get better?

ALPA's job is to negotiate with management to improve the lives of pilots. It isn't to run airlines. ALPA will happily provide management with expertise on safety issues, scheduling issues, etc., but the ultimate job of running the airline is not ours, and management needs to take responsibility and run the airline. Asking the union to make things better for management is about the most ridiculous thing you've said around here, and that's really saying something.

 

[Regul8r]

the only way to make things better is to get involved in the union and push management to improve things.

Wow...I think we all just puked in our collective mouths a little bit.

ALPA's job is to negotiate with management to improve the lives of pilots.

No it's not...it's to schedule with safety. Period. Nothing there about improving QOL outside of safety.

 

[PCL_128]

No it's not...it's to schedule with safety. Period. Nothing there about improving QOL outside of safety.

Apparently you don't understand that a motto is not the same thing as a union's mission. Read ALPA's strategic plan. That's what ALPA is working on.

 

[Turtle21]

And ALPA has teeth? Yes...let's go talk to those airtran guys and see what leaps and bounds they have made in their efforts to negotiate a contract since ALPA came on property. Sometimes a Union is necessary...but to go with ALPA based on their fear-mongering and patriotic analogies? Remember: ALPA's purpose is to Schedule with safety. It has nothing to do with Pay...benefits...hotels, or most anything else that affects QOL. SWA didn't start out with the highest pay-rates in the industry, how did they manage that without ALPA?

Shhh.. when pilots are considering voting in an opportunity to be willfully mugged, you shouldn't show them a factual way to silence the irrational messages of fear being floated by those who hope to be their masters. :laugh:

 

[Turtle21]

Apparently you don't understand that a motto is not the same thing as a union's mission. Read ALPA's strategic plan. That's what ALPA is working on.

I have to admit they have a really net magazine. Do they still have glossy pages? The glossy pages that talk about getting better crew hotels are cool because the pages clean up easy after you use the mag to smash the cockroaches running across the carpet during crew rest. I hope they never let mngmnt take away the glossy pages.

 

[pilotyip]

How come all these guys with answers on how to run an airline don't go out and start the perfect airline?

 

[kommutrdog]

I have to admit they have a really net magazine. Do they still have glossy pages? The glossy pages that talk about getting better crew hotels are cool because the pages clean up easy after you use the mag to smash the cockroaches running across the carpet during crew rest. I hope they never let mngmnt take away the glossy pages.

Yes, ALPA's full-color, glossy magazine sent out via snail mail really inspires confidence that they are up with the times and on the cutting edge of things.

A printed, glossy monthly magazine? Really? Seriously??

Talk about a bunch of dinosaurs fighting yesterday's war.

 

[flygirlqt]

Apparently you don't understand that a motto is not the same thing as a union's mission. Read ALPA's strategic plan. That's what ALPA is working on.

LMAO, strategic plan. Do you ever get tired of being on your knees?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

LMAO, strategic plan. Do you ever get tired of being on your knees?

How is law school coming along? Have you checked the job market lately? Any prospects? What kind of law are you looking to work?

 

[bluesideup340]

This is repeat but if fits here. This is a pilot board so saying anything in defense of management is like peeing into the wind, that it is going to come back to you. CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done. Top management includes many besides the CEO, the CEO sets direction as requested by the board. The CEO has little control over the airline, the airline is run by regulation and union contracts. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity. There is little they can do inside their structure. Other high paid top management personnel, in Operations, Maintenance. Marketing, Legal, Finance, etc. have unique skills in dealing with large organizations. This makes them marketable when shopping for a job, unlike pilots whose skills are nearly universal. Now I will agree that CEO leadership in many cases leaves much to be desired. An issue of ATW in 2002 had an article about “Airline Management a dying breed”, the article basically said no one wants to do it. The good track record CEO’s are going to other industries. With tremendous, payrolls, overhead burdens, and extremely low margins, there is no tried and true path to success. Most have tried to increase market share, but this has lead to low price and ridiculous breakeven load factors in 95% range. What is management supposed to do? Eliminating management will bring the end quicker for the airplane industry, and their salaries are insignificant to the airlines operating costs. Without management you could not operate the airline, The FAA would shut it down without approved Part 119 key management. Would the pilots step up and become management for free in their spare time?

Pilotyip
For a guy without a college degree I am impressed. Nicely done.

 

[flygirlqt]

How is law school coming along? Have you checked the job market lately? Any prospects? What kind of law are you looking to work?

Just started my last year, job market very competitive right now. I already have 2 potential offers with the caveat of graduation and passing the bar. Both prospective firms salary and benefits are very good but that will come with some long hours.

I am probably going to practice taxation law and criminal defense.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

your post makes no sense. Reread my post. Pilot pay, large or small, is a small chunk of the overall cost structure. It is never, cannot be, a make-or-break item in terms of cost competitiveness. Management decisions in all other areas dwarf it by comparison. There are plenty of factors that combine to push pilot pay backwards, but the notion that it alone would make a business non-competitive is not one of them. It is ludicrous on its face.

so why were 14000 pilots furloughed this past decade?

 

[Blue Dude]

so why were 14000 pilots furloughed this past decade?

9/11, $140/barrel oil, traffic downturn, etc., etc., etc. You know all the reasons. Are you actually suggesting that if the pilots cost less money (most did experience substantial pay reductions after 9/11, you know) that they wouldn't have been furloughed? That their companies would have kept them on the payroll though they were parking planes for lack of traffic? That if they worked for even less money that traffic would have rebounded and they wouldn't have been surplused after all? Tell me that's what you meant. This ought to be good.