JetBlue ALPA drive

[PCL_128]

And ALPA has teeth? Yes...let's go talk to those airtran guys and see what leaps and bounds they have made in their efforts to negotiate a contract since ALPA came on property.

I'm glad you asked! Since ALPA came on the property, we have gone from 171 grievances in the backlog to under 40. Since ALPA came on the property, we have gone from 5 TA'd contract sections with basically no improvements, to all but a few economic pieces remaining open, and a likely contract or release within a couple of months. Since ALPA came on the property, we have returned a contract hostage to work, and we have instituted a mandatory assessment to help out other contract hostages and other pilots who have financial difficulties. Since ALPA came on the property, we have picketed for the first time in our pilot group's history, and we have voted 98% in favor of authorizing a strike, something the independent union never could have dreamed of accomplishing.

Starting to get the picture? The AirTran pilots are quite happy with their ALPA representation.

Good luck to the JetBlue pilots. I hope to see you wearing ALPA pins very soon. You deserve a binding contract and real representation.

 

[pilotyip]

one and only Rez,

There are many more than just three ALPA carriers that failed. If the pilots had control over their careers...why did they let their companies go out of business?

They had control, didn't they?

I can add, Tranamerican an ALPA carrier, and Zantop a Teamsters carrier.

Perfectly. I don't expect all that much, so I'm not apt to be disappointed anyway.

sounds like a guy that has been there done that and has a sense of the the reality of the situation. After 11 jobs since leaving the Navy, I have adopted another slogan, "Expect nothing and you will never be disappointed” I know it sounds like having no drive, ambition or goals, but that is not the case. There is so much in this business you have absolutely no control over, these effect your job. To fret unnecessarily over those things causes ulcers, it is not worth it. Getting depressed over stupid things that you have no control over is nor worth it. BTW Blue Dude you see Rez's answer when she can not handle it, slam your parents. Watch you too may be in her tag line some day.

 

[Blue Dude]

BTW Blue Dude you see Rez's answer when she can not handle it, slam your parents. Watch you too may be in her tag line some day.

Actually I read Rez's "parents" quip as an analogy gone awry. I think I see where he (she?) was going with it (pilots control their companies the same way children control how they're raised by their parents), but it came off as an insult on first reading. That's the internet for you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually I read Rez's "parents" quip as an analogy gone awry. I think I see where he (she?) was going with it (pilots control their companies the same way children control how they're raised by their parents), but it came off as an insult on first reading. That's the internet for you.

Well..... perhaps....

If it was insulting.... then perhaps there is some truth....

or.. perhaps one has a low level of self esteem.....

If one acts like a child, they should not be surprised to be treated like one...

and

If one acts ignorant, they should not be surprised to be treated like an idiot....

The guy has intentionally (or not....) made logical fallacies about pilots controlling companies and why ALPA is such a failure.... the best way to engage, is simply not to....

Pilots like to think of themselves as special, and while as a group that has common characteristics, pilots are more in common with the average person than not....

Currently ALPA stinks because for the past 9 years being an Air Line Pilot stinks. ALPA is the biggest on the block so it gets the bulls eye. Yet the anti-USAPA crowd has already pointed out ALPA gains and asks when USAPA is going to make some gains for its pilots.... time will tell...

Most pilots want days off and money in their wallet. Until the company or a union does that, they will be jaded, pissed off, angry and bitter... Recall most pilots "just want to fly their trip and go home". These cynics usually want the gains without the responsibility and have had unrealistic expectations in the first place, but they will never be objective enough to consider or admit that...

Fact, is this industry is and economy is cyclical. Too much so in that we have big booms and big crashes.... when the boom hits again those with the better representation will get the most gains.... those with none will not or lag.....

 

[nosoupforyou!]

Call me naive, but I don't give a rat's patootie about political leverage. I'm simply trying to negotiate the best deal possible given the incredible legal and structural constraints on our profession. The law currently disallows a number of critically necessary benefits and protections outside of a CBA, and ALPA is the best, most direct means of achieving one, period. Don't confuse this very pragmatic approach with some kumbaya quest for global pilot solidarity.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, if there was any other way to achieve these goals, I'd jump at it in a heartbeat.

In case you have not done so yet, take the time to read "Flying the Line" and you will see in no uncertain terms just how your patootie has been covered by ALPA's political leverage............seriously....just do it.

 

[pilotyip]

Pilots like to think of themselves as special, and while as a group that has common characteristics, pilots are more in common with the average person than not....

Currently ALPA stinks because for the past 9 years being an Air Line Pilot stinks. ALPA is the biggest on the block so it gets the bulls eye. Yet the anti-USAPA crowd has already pointed out ALPA gains and asks when USAPA is going to make some gains for its pilots.... time will tell...

Most pilots want days off and money in their wallet. Until the company or a union does that, they will be jaded, pissed off, angry and bitter... Recall most pilots "just want to fly their trip and go home". These cynics usually want the gains without the responsibility and have had unrealistic expectations in the first place, but they will never be objective enough to consider or admit that...

Fact, is this industry is and economy is cyclical. Too much so in that we have big booms and big crashes.... when the boom hits again those with the better representation will get the most gains.... those with none will not or lag.....

looks like we agree on something

 

[texman]

Jetblue welcome to SWA! Who needs Alpo! lol

 

[tailhookah]

bluedude wrote:

Call me naive, but I don't give a rat's patootie about political leverage. I'm simply trying to negotiate the best deal possible given the incredible legal and structural constraints on our profession. The law currently disallows a number of critically necessary benefits and protections outside of a CBA, and ALPA is the best, most direct means of achieving one, period. Don't confuse this very pragmatic approach with some kumbaya quest for global pilot solidarity.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, if there was any other way to achieve these goals, I'd jump at it in a heartbeat.

Spot on and that's the truth. Why do so many have such a beef w/ your statement? I think they are the naive ones. We've given B6 the chance to do the right thing and they haven't. They've had the ability to make those changes to prevent Alpa from coming on property, but they haven't. Not my fault. Not yours either. Now it's time for a change. We'll take charge of our contract... that's what Alpa allows along w/ many additional safety riders.

Tailhookah

 

[tailhookah]

regul8r wrote:

There are many more than just three ALPA carriers that failed. If the pilots had control over their careers...why did they let their companies go out of business?

They had control, didn't they?

I love this angle you guys use... companies go out of business due to bad management or a bad business climate. Labor has a PART in that but not 100%. In the end the vast majority of failed businesses are due to inept or greedy management. It's not the UAW's fault that GM continued to make SUV's and base their whole business plan on huge truck and SUV sales while fuel was 4 bucks a gallon.

In fact there are many instances of union concessions that have allowed mangement to save the company and re-tool. But then those concessions usually have "snap backs" that will allow for a return to previous contracts when the company recovers so greedy and inept managements don't rob the very hand that saved them.

Many anti-labor guys on this board like to lump Alpa into the "bad" pile. Many of you who saw Alpa from the regional view point and are now w/ a major need to wake up and see that the perspective has changed. You have to embrace your future and take control over your contract because if you let some greedy exec. do it you'll always be sucking hind teet...

Wake up and do your homework!

tailhookah

 

[pilotyip]

regul8r wrote:
I love this angle you guys use... companies go out of business due to bad management or a bad business climate. Labor has a PART in that but not 100%. In the end the vast majority of failed businesses are due to inept or greedy management. It's not the UAW's fault that GM continued to make SUV's and base their whole business plan on huge truck and SUV sales while fuel was 4 bucks a gallon.

tailhookah

Back in the SUVs hey day of the early 2000's. It cost the UAW automakers about $1,500-$2,000 more per car more to make a car due to these contracts obligations and feather bedding, pay for not working and a hose of other contract obligations that made them unproductive compared to their non-union auto makers. You can only milk the cow so much before it goes dry. They have to make more margin per car to break even. Because the production cost is fixed and almost the same for a Explorer and a Focus, they had to sell the high-end SUV to make a profit. Ford could sell 10M Focuses and not make a profit. They thrived in the late 90's on cheap gas and SUV's with high mark ups. The UAW was between a rock and a hard place in the reality of the market where consumer decise who will survive and who will not. However, the pilot board here does not care about people in the UAW, they feel the non-union factories do a better job. Is that what I read?