Jet Blue Pilots Files with N.M.B. for ALPA Representation

[Dan Roman]

Blue Bayou make over $384,000/year?

I believe he represents the delusional faction!

 

[Dan Roman]

Why? Why is it so difficult? Many have done well, not just SWAPA. Why go for a nationalized self licking ice cream cone?

You mean like APA? Or perhaps USAPA? The only reason SWAPA has done well is because SWA has had enlightened management.

 

[Dan Roman]

The opposite of that is also true-

Whenever the results are not what you want, blame ALPA, instead of your own co-workers and reps.

Arguing about ALPA is like arguing about abortion. Pick your side, cast your vote. You're not going to change anyone's mind.

Bingo! Turtle21's posts are about ALPA not doing what HE thinks they should do.

 

[Dan Roman]

And finally, you guys have a good company and you are a major part of that. ALPA is a great resource for you and offers a lot to benefit your career going forward. Don't listen to the angry self absorbed faction.

 

[vetrider]

Alpo WILL ******************** a pilot group, hard, if that's what they think needs to be done at the time, for whatever reason. All this talk about owning up to ones own responsibity through their own reps and their own actions is find and dandy. It makes sense.

But what about when Alpo won't even do it's damn job and follow it's own C&BLs when your reps and pilot group are pleading for just that? And gets nothing but the 'squeeze' in return?

Alpo can be a good deal. It can also be a royal ******************** job. The Jet Blue pilots will figure it out, they are big boys and girls. Some of us with strong feelings, either way, just can't help but weigh in.

 

[GuinessGuy]

This is a great thread..........I wish that some blue dudes would read this.........someone earlier in this thread stated that the OC was brainwashed by ALPA upper echelon, so true. We'll vote them in, then they will be back to taking care of themselves, then Delta, then CalUal..........
Moak handed out some SILVER ALPA pins to some of out vocal AlpA organizers, and they giggled and shook hands. These guys background......first airline, never in a union before, did 20 with uncle sam........now they feel they are in the club........

I' m going to be forced to support it........
We must all hang together, or will all hang separately.......B.Franklin

 

[mamba20]

Opps! Dont do it guys, you'll regret it.

 

[FDJ2]

Opps! Dont do it guys, you'll regret it.

Like the CAL pilots, or Fedex pilots who left ALPA and then came back when they realized that being independent robs you of the structure and resources to represent professional pilots, or maybe like the Airtran pilots, who went with an independent union, then realized they lacked the structure and resources to adequately represent their pilots. The Airtran MEC has been much more functional and capable than the NPA. I don't see the Airtran pilots complaining too much about ALPA, particularly now that they're in the middle of a merger.

 

[OurMoney1]

All the ALPA bashers are unique in that they collectively fail to see that an ALPA group is only as strong as its local pilot group.

Have crappy local leaders and the end product is going to be garbage. Entrust the group to a bunch of cowboys who are short sighted and lack intelligence and you are screwed. Harvest strong minded individuals who are talented in respective fields and your ALPA group will be solid.

The benefits of ALPA far outweigh the negatives. If the JBLU pilots are able to build an ALPA group that keeps a steady eye on its future without abandoning others past mistakes they will be a tough act to beat.

A clean slate to work from and a young pilot group leaves lots of opportunity. Work hard and stay focused. You are in a great position and I support your endeavors.

 

[PCL_128]

The only thing I blame ALPA national for is using their power to subvert the vote of the membership. They removed my elected reps

Your reps were removed because they were actively violating the ALPA Bylaws. When you are a fiduciary of the organization, you can't take part in actively trying to harm it, which is exactly what they were doing in their support of USAPA while still in office as ALPA reps.

denied a recall of reps that were colluding with them to deny membership ratification votes

No one in your membership ever followed the process to get a recall vote going. It's an incredibly simple process, but still, you couldn't do it. Blame yourself.

and denied a ratification vote on giving away my pension, that they gave away in the middle of the night on a weekend.

Your job wouldn't exist today if those reps hadn't had the balls to terminate the pension that night. You should thank them every day for saving your career.

Some people are willing to pass off the notion of membership voting as something that pilots don't need to do anymore because ALPA is so capable with all the high paid experts and lawyers. Some pilot groups are good with that, some not so much.

Any ALPA pilot group can have membership ratification if they want it. We have it at AirTran, in fact.

 

[Dan Roman]

All the ALPA bashers are unique in that they collectively fail to see that an ALPA group is only as strong as its local pilot group.

Have crappy local leaders and the end product is going to be garbage. Entrust the group to a bunch of cowboys who are short sighted and lack intelligence and you are screwed. Harvest strong minded individuals who are talented in respective fields and your ALPA group will be solid.

The benefits of ALPA far outweigh the negatives. If the JBLU pilots are able to build an ALPA group that keeps a steady eye on its future without abandoning others past mistakes they will be a tough act to beat.

A clean slate to work from and a young pilot group leaves lots of opportunity. Work hard and stay focused. You are in a great position and I support your endeavors.

Well said, the whole USAPA debacle pretty much defines the shortcomings of independent unions when an airline is in trouble. They let the loonies take over and look what happened. The fact that some usapa cheerleaders are on here bashing ALPA should be a pretty good clue to the mentality of the ALPA bashers.

 

[Dan Roman]

Like the CAL pilots, or Fedex pilots who left ALPA and then came back when they realized that being independent robs you of the structure and resources to represent professional pilots, or maybe like the Airtran pilots, who went with an independent union, then realized they lacked the structure and resources to adequately represent their pilots. The Airtran MEC has been much more functional and capable than the NPA. I don't see the Airtran pilots complaining too much about ALPA, particularly now that they're in the middle of a merger.

Spot on. I can't imagine AirTran trying to go through this merger without the resources of ALPA, Had they been independent SWAPA would have rolled right over them.

 

[1Speedbird]

Whats to stop that under our current working conditions? You have no idea the company has proposed a " scope clause: that allows the company to create or buy a alter-ego carrier with 78 seats or less. 78 seats umm maybe a E-170 vs. the E-190? Right now they could sell off the E-190 and the crews to anyone they feel like. ( ie Republic, Trans States, Eagle). They can do this because there is no senority protection, in a transacation or a furlough. Yeah we have a furlough protection clause, good luck trying to collect if they choose to change the game. No recourse at all.

Read the proposed language again. It must be less than MAX certificated seating of 78. So no E 170, CRJ 700, CRJ 900, Q400 as they are all certified to 78 seats or more. What’s left is the 50 seat RJs or CRJs with the exception of the ATR 72-500. Which ALPA negotiated scope do you want? DAL, UAL, CAL,

 

[LearLove]

Spot on. I can't imagine AirTran trying to go through this merger without the resources of ALPA, Had they been independent SWAPA would have rolled right over them.

So SWAPA is an independent union - does that mean ALPA is going to "roll over" SWAPA?

 

[OurMoney1]

Well said, the whole USAPA debacle pretty much defines the shortcomings of independent unions when an airline is in trouble. They let the loonies take over and look what happened. The fact that some usapa cheerleaders are on here bashing ALPA should be a pretty good clue to the mentality of the ALPA bashers.

The USAPA debacle is a case study in rogue leadership. It was the local USAir boys that caved during the pension crisis and gave away the farm before all hands showed for work the next day. USAir pilots can only blame themselves for allowing their union to be run by the same 10% of the pilot list for too long. The damage this caused can be seen in the wreckage since 2000. Cant blame them for being crazy, they have good reason to be pissed at themselves and everybody else that didnt get involved till the ship was grounded and taking on water.

A true case study of how not to run a local shop.