Jet Blue firing???

[B-atch]

Huh? I must be missing something here. Is the fact, that we have jetblue pilots working with management a bad thing? Or is it that it looks like representation, which is a bad thing? I am confused!

If you need to ask... Apparently you'r background is fairly SHALLOW...

 

[B-atch]

I don't have to ask the Challenge folks Pal, I was one for 12 years. And FYI, CAC was a CBA holding Teamster outfit without one little detail....SCOPE......but the end result was the same.....UPS in, CAC out. Oh, did I mention that the majority of UPS were Teamsters "Brothers". Put that in your union pipe and smoke it.

As I stated in a previous post. " You'r union is as good as the members and it's elected officials" If the folks at CAC chose to negotiate an agreement without SCOPE and SUCCESSORSHIP language, then its their own fault for their downfall. You, if anyone on the JB property, has tasted the bitter result of placing blind faith and you'r future in the hands of management...It's not because management is cruel and detached, its not personal, it is simply done to MAKE MONEY!! When you'r business model starts to faulter, then you will repeat history AGAIN. Do you folks actually think that JB is SALE or MERGER proof? Because if you do, I have some ENRON stock that I would like to sell

 

[V2+10]

....Loss of license insurance?

Yep, JB has that. Harvey Watt is the provider...paid for by JB...no dues required!!

v1

 

[sandman2122]

So you have some fellow pilot's supposably representing YOUR best interests with management? Hope those few know what the entire pilot group wants and not for their own personal gain.

 

[B-atch]

So you have some fellow pilot's supposably representing YOUR best interests with management? Hope those few know what the entire pilot group wants and not for their own personal gain.

Human nature allways surfaces and prevails...GREED is the pill that destroys the fiber of happiness. This goes for both sides.. And this is the only reason wy we need a WORKING AGREEMENT.. It keeps both parties in check..

 

[jetblue320]

As I stated in a previous post. " You'r union is as good as the members and it's elected officials" If the folks at CAC chose to negotiate an agreement without SCOPE and SUCCESSORSHIP language, then its their own fault for their downfall. You, if anyone on the JB property, has tasted the bitter result of placing blind faith and you'r future in the hands of management...It's not because management is cruel and detached, its not personal, it is simply done to MAKE MONEY!! When you'r business model starts to faulter, then you will repeat history AGAIN. Do you folks actually think that JB is SALE or MERGER proof? Because if you do, I have some ENRON stock that I would like to sell

I totally agree with most of what you are saying. Yes indeed, we failed to get good language and yes I tasted the bitter results for sure. Heck no, I do not believe anyone at JB believes we are bullet proof. The end result is always less than favorable for a lot of folks with mergers, aquisitions and the like. It's the nature of business. I do feel (along with many others at JB) that history doesn't necessarily have to repeat itself. And, maybe someday JB will go away or be like all the others, but probably not in my career span there. Selfish as it sounds, that'll be someone else's problem. I hope to be drinking drinks with little pink umbrella's in them by then. I am close to there now and getting closer every day.

C yaa and thanks for the warning!

P.S. What are you still doing with Enron stock for sale?

 

[FDJ2]

If I really thought you meant that I would say thanks. But obviously JB has soured you for some reason so we'll just leave it at that. The way I figure it not everything in life has to depend on luck.

C yaa

JBLU hasn't soured me at all. It's a fine company and the crews are great, but if you're leaving your butt out hanging in the wind for management to one day take full advantage of, all I can say is good luck, because one day you'll need it. When it happens, you might feel a little pressure, take a deep breath and relax. Enjoy the ride.

 

[ivauir]

Sure are a lot of folks on this board got their panties in a wad 'cause the folks at JB don't do it their way. Then they accuse JB pilots of "dragging the industry down" because they choose to do things differently (read in ways that actually work). It is my belief that JB will get a pilot union someday and that it won't be ALPA. But I am absolutly POSITIVE that my opinion(and the opinion of every other non JB pilot) of weather they need one or not does not matter!

I though this was an interview board ... JB is hiring, it is a great job, stop trying to spread nasty rumours and poison sombody else's well. Instead try posting information that'll help folks get hired at YOUR carrier. You know something you might actually have a clue about!


BTW SWA is hiring! We fly Boeings (that we pay for ) we have a union (not ALPA!) and our airplanes are getting these really cool HUGE winglets that chicks dig and guys think are cool.

 

[B-atch]

P.S. What are you still doing with Enron stock for sale? [/QUOTE]
Comes to show ya....Pilots make P!!SS poor business men...

 

[jetblue320]

JBLU hasn't soured me at all. It's a fine company and the crews are great, but if you're leaving your butt out hanging in the wind for management to one day take full advantage of, all I can say is good luck, because one day you'll need it. When it happens, you might feel a little pressure, take a deep breath and relax. Enjoy the ride.

FDJ2,

Glad to hear your aren't sour. I appreciate the warning, really. Hopefully, I/we won't need the luck, but Thanks!

C yaaaa

 

[V2+10]

It amazes me that it’s always pilots from other airlines that think JetBlue should be unionized. Having been in this business for over 20 years as both a member of ALPA and the Teamsters, I can honestly tell you that unions are not what they are cracked up to be. They are in fact a business…a big dues sucking business. Don’t kid yourself, these unions are out to make money.


In the early 80’s, as an ALPA member, I paid my mandatory strike assessment to help out my EAL brothers and sisters. Several years later when my own company fell on hard times where do you think the almighty ALPA was? They were NOWHERE TO BE FOUND! Lawsuits, thousands in unpaid wages, company fraud, the list goes on. Do you think we recieved any help from ALPA? We were on our own! There was no money in it anymore.

Please don’t tell me about union protections until you have been on the short end of the stick.


v2

 

[Dizel8]

"If you need to ask... Apparently you'r background is fairly SHALLOW."

You are just itching for a fight, aren't ya. Well, guess what, your dick is bigger than mine! There, that should make you feel better.

 

[B-atch]

LOL LOL LOL!#!$###^%^# You know off the subject of airlines and unions... You must be a BALL drinking with!!! Still LOL.......

 

[B-atch]

Missed the TARGET

Folks apparently some of you have failed to capture the intent of my first post.. I am not here to BASH or ridicule anyone, I am simply questioning the apparent ability of the JB management to effectively terminate a pilot at managements own discretion...Perhapps when a few others are placed out on the street, the rest will open their eyes to this obvious THREAT..Wy am I concerned? well very simply stated, This industry's practices run on PRESIDENCE. What one carrier's innovative ideas bring to the field, sets the standard for others to follow...This concept, from a management perspective, is BRILLIANT!! It allows an airline to sistematically CROP the top percentage of the work force (seniors). If we as PILOTS allow for this kind of practice to run rampant in our proffession, we are doomed..We will simply become TEMPORARY employees. This would not be a factor in most industries, you simply take you'r credentials and experience and find a BETTER job...We all know what happens when US PILOTS are put out on the street...

Some of you have shown discontent with ALPA...It is by far not a perfect organization, I too have issues and gripes with ALPA. But, at least you are provided with the tools to care for yourselves..You do not need to bring ALPA on the property.. Start your own organization. Set a standard that will guarantee you'r long term carreer expectations. Make progress in you'r work rules and set the standard for others to follow...Its no secret that the MAJORS are trying to mimic the LCC. If we allow for the erosion of job security features and give management the tools to replace us at will.....This profession will turn itself into a hobbie.. Its no secret, there are THOUSANDS of individuals out there that will do you'r job for less...Hell some might even pay to sit on you'r seat...

As pilots we tend to micromanage our world. We fail to see the big picture. Hell we only know how much we make now and how much we will make in the next tree years. Seniority,Sex,and Pay...Management, on the other hand, has set up a long term master plan for the profitability of it's airline...As I stated in a previous post,"Management is not insensitive or detached, or acts in dubious ways to screw the pilot group, they do what they do for one purpose.... TO MAKE MONEY..

When the winds of change approach you'r shores... I sure hope that you find the knowledge and tools to better youselves and hopefully, the profession for which you serve. That is all folks.....

 

[Resume Writer]

Wow, this has really gotten into a union/non-union discussion!

Having worked in both environments, I can say there are pros and cons to both. There are valid points on both sides of this argument. I can understand the people who have been burned by unions and other who have been helped by them. I also understand that if the management at JB leaves, then people are at the risk of the new management. But isn't that essentially the same if your airline is bought out? Most times contracts go right out the window from the successor (not sure if that is the term that I want to use) company. History has shown that if the two unions are the same, then sometimes there is integration of seniority lists and other times there are staples to the bottom. If they are different, it is most likely stapling. In some ways it might work out better if the takeover company has better benefits. As I said, there are pros and cons.

I have read the contract that is signed by management and the JB pilots. It is very straight forward and unlike a good many union contracts, is very black and white. I did not see a lot of "shoulds," "coulds," or "woulds" in this contract. In some ways, as long as the management stays the same, I believe that the JB pilots are protected pretty darn good.

I do not believe that David Neeleman is in any way out to screw his employees. It just does not seem to be in his nature. I have followed this man's career for about 12 years and have the utmost respect for him.

Now, having been at a carrier that changed hands after bankruptcy, I think there are times when unions are needed. When the change happened, the new management were NOT employee oriented at all. Hence, before bankruptcy, there was not one union on the property. After, almost every workforce was unionized.

But I still say that a union cannot totally protect you. I have seen this happen many times. As I said in my previous post, the companies will take a gamble and assume the employee cannot get a good legal defense. I have seen pilots and FAs spend 3 years getting their jobs back; some with backpay, others without.

Just my opinion and two cents worth from my experience in both good and bad working conditions.

Kathy

 

[ivauir]

B-atch
Please start proof reading your posts ... and again: what can you offer for the prospective airline pilot? I mean other than a harangue against JB. The fastest way for JB to get a pilot union on property would be to "crop" the senior pilots as you propose. So stop worrying about a problem someone else MIGHT someday have, because it really just looks like you’re just looking for anyway to put down JB.

 

[B-atch]

B-atch
Please start proof reading your posts ... and again: what can you offer for the prospective airline pilot? I mean other than a harangue against JB. The fastest way for JB to get a pilot union on property would be to "crop" the senior pilots as you propose. So stop worrying about a problem someone else MIGHT someday have, because it really just looks like you’re just looking for anyway to put down JB.

Well I'm sory to stress you with my poor writing skills...Grammar and spelling have never been my FORTE.....Perhapps you can teach me how to write and I, in turn, can teach you how to FLY....Oppinions are just that..

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

And, maybe someday JB will go away or be like all the others, but probably not in my career span there. Selfish as it sounds, that'll be someone else's problem. I hope to be drinking drinks with little pink umbrella's in them by then. I am close to there now and getting closer every day.

LOL, way to go, old man

 

[dgs]

This entire thread is based on conjecture and fear. If JetBlue ever starts using the contract to "trim the top 10%" then this discussion might be appropriate. Until then, it's mostly a waste of time to make accusations or answer them from people who simply can't understand how this company works.

 

[Skank]

When you all recover from your current hangover, maybe we can restart this thread with something other than "..I heard from some friends." Lets try something much more believable like, "I read this on the bathroom wall." Or, "I just got my National Inquirer and..." Or, screw it, let's just post unsubstantiated B.S. on this board and let the sparks fly.