JBLU Management Answers Back

[Fubijaakr]

You can still be happy and be unionized. Ask the next SWA pilot you see.

 

[waveflyer]

You can still be happy and be unionized. Ask the next SWA pilot you see.

+1

There is simply an appropriate way to do business. Would you buy a car on a handshake? Buy a house where the terms weren't spelled out and gone over exactly. Your career is bigger than any of that.
Does your CEO have a legal and binding contract?

Those who you can truly trust and will do right by you have no problem putting it in writing.

If JBlu mgmt were truly worried about ALPa national they would have not played the same fear-mongering game when you tried to go in-house.
Like Herb did.

Do not brush aside that swa is the most heavily unionized airline in the world. It proves everything I just said.

 

[BeachBummer]

DING DING DING.... My first and ONLY airline. Isn't that a rare thing nowadays!!! 12 years and counting... How many other ALPA careers follow this kind of path?

^^^Man, this explains soooooo much^^^

As for your question, nothing more than luck and a decision made with the best possible info at the time. Guys have been hired at the best carriers in thier 20's and been captains for years while others can't manage to keep a good job for half a decade. CONGRATS!! you are a lucky one. I hope you stay lucky man. history says you probably won't but I hope you do.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I am not sure why all of you guys think that those of us comeing from the regionals are going to be content with what we have. Ya. It is a huge step up, and yes that will make a new hire happy. However I have spent the last 6 years at my regional trying to make it better in every way, so I am sure I will spend the next 30 (hopefully) at B6 trying to do the same. Dont just assume we are all a bunch of "Jokers" just because we are a happy. Seeing a lot of happy B6 pilots in my JS over the years is why I applied in the first place.

I have flown with a lot of new folks recently. I think many thought this place was different but it's not. It might be better than your previous carrier but we have a looooong way to go. I'm hearing familiar excuses from the new folks like....I haven't been here long so I am on the fence....or I don't want to lose what we have. What you have is nothing and can be changed via an e-mail, You have zero representation, the PVC is ineffective and a student council at best.

Listen and make your decision wisely. I GUARANTEE you if this drive fails there will be another one within two years. That will be two years of WASTED time. We may not have much time left and could very well be sold by then.

 

[SpeedBird]

When United-Continental and Delta-Northwest pilots leave and form their own in-house unions (and they will, it only makes sense with the $$$$millions they keep to themselves), what will ALPA look like then? What will our dues look like to keep up with their fixed costs? Who will be left? ALPA had their own employees strike against them... Great organization!!!

Our model at JBLU has worked for 12 years. It is unique. It is not perfect. But not one pilot here has lost his job to a furlough. Not one pilot has been asked to give back any pay. How many unionized carriers can state that fact? Heck Airtran, Spirit, Alaska, American, United, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Mesa, and a host of others HAVE furloughed... I look at facts... And I'll be the first to laugh at the furloughs we have under ALPA... Furlough clause or not (DALPA)... You can take that to the bank-- FACTS not rumors or speculations...

Show me cause and effect (i.e., ALPA on property was a direct cause for pilot furloughs, vice bad management decisions). Only then will your argument will have any merit. Right now your supposed "facts" do not cut it and only look like management talking points. I must ask you; have you been sharing pillow talk with Jenny lately?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Show me cause and effect (i.e., ALPA on property was a direct cause for pilot furloughs, vice bad management decisions). Only then will your argument will have any merit.

But they never have any merit. BB is the kind of guy who came directly from the military.

He thinks he's management. Unfortunately he's just BLUE collar labor...another enlisted puke with flying skills.

 

[SpeedBird]

But they never have any merit. BB is the kind of guy who came directly from the military.

He thinks he's management. Unfortunately he's just BLUE collar labor...another enlisted puke with flying skills.

So what is your point about the military Fubi? I also came from the military (retired) directly to B6 and it didn't seem to cloud my view on the need for union representation in this industry. I can assume that at least BB served his country honorably doing what he loves most. We are all blue-collar for sure in this industry, however my military experience gave me more skills and abilities than just knowing how to fly an aircraft from point A to point B, and I am grateful for that fact each day in this lousy business. BTW, equating BB as just "another enlisted puke" shows your apparent ignorance about the high value the "enlisted" man/woman contributes to the success of our military.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Please, speedbird, don't get your panties in a wad. The point is that most of the guys who retire then go to the airlines are senior officers (O-5/O-6). They are total management mentality.

I didn't use the term "enlisted puke" to denigrate anyone. It was just to illustrate that we, as pilots, are merely the foot soldiers. We don't inhabit "officer country" any more and need to adjust our thinking to embrace the fact that we're just rank and file labor.

In fact, B6 does you guys a favor by dressing you in TSA blue. What more illustration do you need that you're just blue collar labor, whose costs can be cut at the whim of the guys in the management suite.

 

[waveflyer]

So what is your point about the military Fubi? I also came from the military (retired) directly to B6 and it didn't seem to cloud my view on the need for union representation in this industry. I can assume that at least BB served his country honorably doing what he loves most. We are all blue-collar for sure in this industry, however my military experience gave me more skills and abilities than just knowing how to fly an aircraft from point A to point B, and I am grateful for that fact each day in this lousy business. BTW, equating BB as just "another enlisted puke" shows your apparent ignorance about the high value the "enlisted" man/woman contributes to the success of our military.

You know- I don't disagree. But I'd love to see the Mil guys go after the ones that give you your bad rep, then the Civilian guy who points it out.

 

[SpeedBird]

Is that the best you can do Fubi?

You are the type of pilot that gives unions bad names (knuckle-dragging goon), and if you want to promote the union cause and its true value to the fence-sitters and other non-believers, then get your sorry pathetic arse of these pilot boards and go ice yourself on some remote hockey rink. BTW, you're a laughing stock among your own at Alaska and I had some great laughs with some Alaska ALPA folks over your pilot buffoonery.

Now go run off and get lost, I need to go back to my pool and nurse a Corona.

 

[SpeedBird]

You know- I don't disagree. But I'd love to see the Mil guys go after the ones that give you your bad rep, then the Civilian guy who points it out.

I did that already, but the problem at B6 is there are far more civilian FUs than military who have been the problem to getting a union on the property...but not for much longer.

 

[waveflyer]

I did that already, but the problem at B6 is there are far more civilian FUs than military who have been the problem to getting a union on the property...but not for much longer.

Might be Fair enough. If you're perspective is clear. "Far more" puts a doubt in my head bc that would be VERY inconsistent w/ the rest of the industry, but I don't work there...

 

[tico]

Is that the best you can do Fubi?

You are the type of pilot that gives unions bad names (knuckle-dragging goon), and if you want to promote the union cause and its true value to the fence-sitters and other non-believers, then get your sorry pathetic arse of these pilot boards and go ice yourself on some remote hockey rink. BTW, you're a laughing stock among your own at Alaska and I had some great laughs with some Alaska ALPA folks over your pilot buffoonery.

Now go run off and get lost, I need to go back to my pool and nurse a Corona.

And with this post you just demonstrated the very point that fubi is making....
drips with elitest, officer attitude....when and if you ever acknowledge your enlisted status, you will realize that guys like fubi(fortunately found at every good union airline) could care less what their alpa peers think. They care that everyone remember that they are union pilots first and foremost and forget which management paint scheme of the week is on the side of the heavy equipment that they operate

 

[Fubijaakr]

Thanks, tico.

Its like the old country songs says, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything." Like it or not, at least people know where I stand.

I guess that's why I'll always be just rank and file.

 

[Lake Alice]

What I find interesting with our mil pilots is their reluctance to look at the facts. Our management has lied over and over and over again and despite all this they cling to the belief that we will be taken care of no matter what. The military is supposed to take care of their own and not having enlisted myself I cannot confirm or deny it but having spent my career in the civilian world I can say with absolute certainty that when push comes to shove management takes care of management ONLY. The average line pilot will be left to fend for themselves. Absent a union, not just ALPA, we are up the proverbial tributary without sufficient means of propulsion.

 

[BeachBummer]

Speedbird & Alice,
I'm a MCO190 FO. I fly with a good hand full of our MIL guys. I'd say they are 50/50. We have some of our MIL guys on the OC. Others won't even talk to me about the subject because JB has been good to them for years. We have just as many if not more civi's that turn a blind eye to the facts. We're all different and will make the choice based on our personal experience and knowledge. Don't lump em all into one pool.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The military is supposed to take care of their own...

In my branch of the service, it was a given that officers always ensured the needs of the troops were met before they saw to their own comfort. That is the tenant that makes it hard for career military officers to make the intellectual jump to civilian flying.

They can't believe that airline managers don't conform to the same leadership style. However, as you say...

....I can say with absolute certainty that when push comes to shove management takes care of management ONLY. The average line pilot will be left to fend for themselves. Absent a union, not just ALPA, we are up the proverbial tributary without sufficient means of propulsion.

You are exactly correct. And the quote, "You can't fight City Hall," comes immediatley to mind. What is the individual pilot going to do when rapacious managers decide to change his pay and work rules in order to generate a little more stock price return for the "investors"?

Nothing, that's what. Again, that's a fine point the average retired military officer pilot has some troube grasping intially. I will grant you that most of them come around quickly, however there are lots of Blue Bayous out there who never quite get it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Anyone that thinks ALPA is the answer for JB is beyond crazy -- ALPA has literally screwed up every carrier they have represented...

It's all about where you fall in line on the timing. My pop-in-law retired from DAL early '01. And is PLENTY happy of how is career went!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Nothing, that's what. Again, that's a fine point the average retired military officer pilot has some troube grasping intially. I will grant you that most of them come around quickly, however there are lots of Blue Bayous out there who never quite get it.

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed. (Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Alaska, Airtran, Spirit and I'm sure I'm missing several others). Nor has ALPA prevented pilots from disappearing during M/As (TWA, Midwest). If for one moment, you think our first contract will not have some concessions in it, you're dreaming... Our guys will be hard pressed to come up with something big (retirement or health care) to show the troops the ALPA route was so right. They'll probably garner it... But don't be surprised if all of a sudden a furlough clause is penciled in, E190 pay drops, deadhead pay is 50%, no more trip/leg protections, or premium pay goes away with an 85 hour cap put in place... Don't worry though, we'll get it all back in the next contract!!! Heard any of that before???

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed.

Relax, they all flew either Boeing or McDonnell Douglas equipment. Since we don't, we'll never furlough.

[/sarcasm] It makes about as much sense as your argument, so why not? IOW, correlation <> causation.