JBLU Management Answers Back

[SpeedBird]

You know- I don't disagree. But I'd love to see the Mil guys go after the ones that give you your bad rep, then the Civilian guy who points it out.

I did that already, but the problem at B6 is there are far more civilian FUs than military who have been the problem to getting a union on the property...but not for much longer.

 

[waveflyer]

I did that already, but the problem at B6 is there are far more civilian FUs than military who have been the problem to getting a union on the property...but not for much longer.

Might be Fair enough. If you're perspective is clear. "Far more" puts a doubt in my head bc that would be VERY inconsistent w/ the rest of the industry, but I don't work there...

 

[tico]

Is that the best you can do Fubi?

You are the type of pilot that gives unions bad names (knuckle-dragging goon), and if you want to promote the union cause and its true value to the fence-sitters and other non-believers, then get your sorry pathetic arse of these pilot boards and go ice yourself on some remote hockey rink. BTW, you're a laughing stock among your own at Alaska and I had some great laughs with some Alaska ALPA folks over your pilot buffoonery.

Now go run off and get lost, I need to go back to my pool and nurse a Corona.

And with this post you just demonstrated the very point that fubi is making....
drips with elitest, officer attitude....when and if you ever acknowledge your enlisted status, you will realize that guys like fubi(fortunately found at every good union airline) could care less what their alpa peers think. They care that everyone remember that they are union pilots first and foremost and forget which management paint scheme of the week is on the side of the heavy equipment that they operate

 

[Fubijaakr]

Thanks, tico.

Its like the old country songs says, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything." Like it or not, at least people know where I stand.

I guess that's why I'll always be just rank and file.

 

[Lake Alice]

What I find interesting with our mil pilots is their reluctance to look at the facts. Our management has lied over and over and over again and despite all this they cling to the belief that we will be taken care of no matter what. The military is supposed to take care of their own and not having enlisted myself I cannot confirm or deny it but having spent my career in the civilian world I can say with absolute certainty that when push comes to shove management takes care of management ONLY. The average line pilot will be left to fend for themselves. Absent a union, not just ALPA, we are up the proverbial tributary without sufficient means of propulsion.

 

[BeachBummer]

Speedbird & Alice,
I'm a MCO190 FO. I fly with a good hand full of our MIL guys. I'd say they are 50/50. We have some of our MIL guys on the OC. Others won't even talk to me about the subject because JB has been good to them for years. We have just as many if not more civi's that turn a blind eye to the facts. We're all different and will make the choice based on our personal experience and knowledge. Don't lump em all into one pool.

 

[Fubijaakr]

The military is supposed to take care of their own...

In my branch of the service, it was a given that officers always ensured the needs of the troops were met before they saw to their own comfort. That is the tenant that makes it hard for career military officers to make the intellectual jump to civilian flying.

They can't believe that airline managers don't conform to the same leadership style. However, as you say...

....I can say with absolute certainty that when push comes to shove management takes care of management ONLY. The average line pilot will be left to fend for themselves. Absent a union, not just ALPA, we are up the proverbial tributary without sufficient means of propulsion.

You are exactly correct. And the quote, "You can't fight City Hall," comes immediatley to mind. What is the individual pilot going to do when rapacious managers decide to change his pay and work rules in order to generate a little more stock price return for the "investors"?

Nothing, that's what. Again, that's a fine point the average retired military officer pilot has some troube grasping intially. I will grant you that most of them come around quickly, however there are lots of Blue Bayous out there who never quite get it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Anyone that thinks ALPA is the answer for JB is beyond crazy -- ALPA has literally screwed up every carrier they have represented...

It's all about where you fall in line on the timing. My pop-in-law retired from DAL early '01. And is PLENTY happy of how is career went!

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Nothing, that's what. Again, that's a fine point the average retired military officer pilot has some troube grasping intially. I will grant you that most of them come around quickly, however there are lots of Blue Bayous out there who never quite get it.

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed. (Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Alaska, Airtran, Spirit and I'm sure I'm missing several others). Nor has ALPA prevented pilots from disappearing during M/As (TWA, Midwest). If for one moment, you think our first contract will not have some concessions in it, you're dreaming... Our guys will be hard pressed to come up with something big (retirement or health care) to show the troops the ALPA route was so right. They'll probably garner it... But don't be surprised if all of a sudden a furlough clause is penciled in, E190 pay drops, deadhead pay is 50%, no more trip/leg protections, or premium pay goes away with an 85 hour cap put in place... Don't worry though, we'll get it all back in the next contract!!! Heard any of that before???

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed.

Relax, they all flew either Boeing or McDonnell Douglas equipment. Since we don't, we'll never furlough.

[/sarcasm] It makes about as much sense as your argument, so why not? IOW, correlation <> causation.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Seriously, Dude...its like talking to a petulant teenager. Remember:

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. Its a waste of your time and it irritates the pig."

 

[Dan Roman]

Blue Bayou, you are most certainly entitled to your opinions, but with all due respect, you have probably done more than anyone to convince those reading to vote for ALPA.
I sure don't get were you think being ALPA means you get 1/2 pay for DH? Anyone can negotiate it if they want, but it certainly is not the norm.

 

[Fubijaakr]

My ALPA negotiated DH is 1/2 credit, FULL PAY. I don't know where he gets that stuff either.

 

[sniper]

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed. (Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Alaska, Airtran, Spirit and I'm sure I'm missing several others). Nor has ALPA prevented pilots from disappearing during M/As (TWA, Midwest). If for one moment, you think our first contract will not have some concessions in it, you're dreaming... Our guys will be hard pressed to come up with something big (retirement or health care) to show the troops the ALPA route was so right. They'll probably garner it... But don't be surprised if all of a sudden a furlough clause is penciled in, E190 pay drops, deadhead pay is 50%, no more trip/leg protections, or premium pay goes away with an 85 hour cap put in place... Don't worry though, we'll get it all back in the next contract!!! Heard any of that before???

BLUE BAYOU: Dont worry, you will not be furlough, you will let go .....maybe you will have no job if AMR buys JB and your JB management exercises your 5 year contract and you out with no job. Have you thought about that?
Or you trust your management soooo much...

They will sure complete the sale or merger easier without you...Look around you, Usair/AWA, United/CAL.

Management makes much more money when the SELL....JB will be sold alot easier with out YOU


Be smart, secure your family with a union and i dont care which one.



BTW AMR has 1800 on the street and 3000 at Eagle, they can cover JBs flying without you.

 

[Fins Up]

... And I'll be the first to laugh at the furloughs we have under ALPA... Furlough clause or not ...

Wow. This says as much about you as a person as anything I've ever read here. I know who you are Mr. F and you better believe this will come back to haunt you.

Should you ever desire redemption you'll have to start with full disclosure and a sincere apology.

 

[IrishjbPilot]

I dont know why you guys give Blue Bayou, um, Mr F the time of day. This is the same guy that ratted a fellow pilot out for taxing slower than he liked. Blue Bayou, you can argue all day long for all I care but your posts dont make any sense and in the end, no matter what, you are still happy with the direct relationship that we keep getting shoved up our rears. For being someone who has been in the airline world for a while, you sure are clueless.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Blue Bayou, you can argue all day long for all I care but your posts dont make any sense and in the end, no matter what, you are still happy with the direct relationship that we keep getting shoved up our rears. For being someone who has been in the airline world for a while, you sure are clueless.

Well, they make sense if he's a management shill. You have to realize there is a certain percentage of guys at every airline who either:

1. Hate ALPA or Unions in general.
2. Are management wannbes.
3. Think Daddy Dave is going to take care of them no matter what.

Or a combination of the three. BB sounds like a 2/3 man to me.

 

[BeachBummer]

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed. (Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Alaska, Airtran, Spirit and I'm sure I'm missing several others). Nor has ALPA prevented pilots from disappearing during M/As (TWA, Midwest). If for one moment, you think our first contract will not have some concessions in it, you're dreaming... Our guys will be hard pressed to come up with something big (retirement or health care) to show the troops the ALPA route was so right. They'll probably garner it... But don't be surprised if all of a sudden a furlough clause is penciled in, E190 pay drops, deadhead pay is 50%, no more trip/leg protections, or premium pay goes away with an 85 hour cap put in place... Don't worry though, we'll get it all back in the next contract!!! Heard any of that before???

How do you propose that we would furlough with 92 firm orders comming in the next 8 years? Thats nearly 1hull/month on average...

Oh, the pilots unionized... there goes the company. We'd best flush this billion dollar operation. Managment would be so upset that we unionized that they run the company into the ground and declare BK for full liquidation? REALLY DUDE?? They are so scared of ALPA that they signed on for 40+ new A/C to come starting in 2017 and that came... wait for it... after the ALPA filing with the NMB... sounds like we're hosed brotha.

There probably will be a furlough clause in the first contract. I welcome it. Because now in my PEA without one. I get 1 years severence with no guarantee of ever being called back. It would be much cheaper to hire a newb than to start me again at 5th year pay wouldn't it? Ah, they'd never do that.

Why exactly would anyone vote(yes you get to vote) on a contract with "LESS"?

We're !!M-A-K-I-N-G M-O-N-E-Y!!

Ah, no you think it'll take too long to get a CBA... well from PCG1 till now was how long? ah, nearly 6 years!!! Nope still no workaround to that LOL, LTD, STD, health care ect... We did get a nice raise on the E190... after... 4YEARS!

I do encourage you to keep up the good posts though. :beer:

 

[Lake Alice]

I don't have to "get it". I just look at history. There aren't many ALPA carriers out there who haven't furloughed. (Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, Alaska, Airtran, Spirit and I'm sure I'm missing several others). Nor has ALPA prevented pilots from disappearing during M/As (TWA, Midwest). If for one moment, you think our first contract will not have some concessions in it, you're dreaming... Our guys will be hard pressed to come up with something big (retirement or health care) to show the troops the ALPA route was so right. They'll probably garner it... But don't be surprised if all of a sudden a furlough clause is penciled in, E190 pay drops, deadhead pay is 50%, no more trip/leg protections, or premium pay goes away with an 85 hour cap put in place... Don't worry though, we'll get it all back in the next contract!!! Heard any of that before???

Fox,

Do you proof read before you hit the submit button?

Jetblue hasn't furloughed because it hasn't needed. We need a furlough clause because currently it can be done out of seniority. Jetblue is already hiring and awarding A/C out of seniority. As for the TWA/AA integration try reading what actually happened before you use it as a reference. Over the past 7 or 8 years we have lost schedule productivity, insurance benefits, retirement benefits and COLA's. In the 5 years of alphabet soup we have accomplished almost nothing.

Jetblue understands that if they give people like you a small raise you will be satisfied with paying 40% for benefits when standard is 20%, retirement at 5% when standard is 13-15%, absolutely no merger protection, holding company issues, alter-ego issues, etc...

You keep drinking your blue juice and leave future planning to those who understand what is actually going on.

As for the "don't worry we'll get it back in the next contract" your right. We WILL get it back in the next contract. We don't have much to give up.