JBLU Management Answers Back

[Dizel8]

2. Good thing I'm on my wifes insurance

Now why would you be on your wife's insurance?

 

[tico]

Well put Dizel8. I only have this to add....read and re-read Flying the Line part 1...The hard part for direct-entry military guys....They were "management " for their entire career....hard lessons for those guys....some can never admit to stepping down into the "enlisted ranks" which is what an airline gig is.

 

[Dizel8]

BB,

I have to ask, why do we have trip rigs, duty rigs, per diem, 16 hr duty days, 8hr flight time limits, min guarantee and a multitude of other things? Do we have these things because management thought we should have them, after all these things increases their cost and reduces their flexibility or do we have these thing because unified pilots fought for them?


Are you really of the opinion, that management would have provided us these things if other pilots hadn't already set a precedent?

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

... you didn't expect them to play nice did u?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Well put Dizel8. I only have this to add....read and re-read Flying the Line part 1...The hard part for direct-entry military guys....They were "management " for their entire career....hard lessons for those guys....some can never admit to stepping down into the "enlisted ranks" which is what an airline gig is.

This post should be mandatory reading for every military aviator the day he gets his first airline job.

 

[$$$4nothin]

And this is why JB hired jokers like $$$4nothin.

Why am I a Joker. Is it because I want to increase my QOL in every way, and B6 will do this. Is it because I have planned my life realistically as to what airlines offer as a career, no matter hard we all fight to make it better. I would love to hear your suggestion as to what one should do. Shall all of us regional guys hold out until SW, or Fedex call us. Just curious if you have a good opinion as a good alternative or just doing some name calling because you are pissed at your current situation. If so I understand this because my current company pisses me off also.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Now why would you be on your wife's insurance?

Because it is much better insurance at a better price.

 

[sniper]

I've accepted the fact that ALPA will probably win the election this time around. I'll be relieved. Because if they were defeated, the same group would either protest the results or then try TWU or some other trucking union. I'll be grateful to pay out the $5000/year dues for the 2-3 years it's going to take to get our first contract-- while maintaining status quo on pay and benefits. That's a pretty expensive ALPA decal...

The battle cry is "We want industry standard!" Please check out the pay rates of other E190 operators. Our JBLU E190 FOs make more money than Republic's E190 Captains. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc.html
Jetblue leads the industry in pay for the E190s.

The ALPA supporters pick and choose the great parts of every contract out there as their promise for greener pastures. Really? Our first contract will most likely be concessionary no matter what these ALPA supporters will tell you, that is just a fact of first contracts. What if we do end up with industry standard-- like no more pay protection for lost legs or trips due to IROP (APA-American). Or how about 50% pay for deadheads (ALPA-UAL). Be careful what you ask for, because these are examples of industry standards.

I love Democrats!!![/QUOT







5000 THOUSAND? Whats your Jetblue salary 250 k per year?

ALPA gets 1.9 percent

 

[Dizel8]

Because it is much better insurance at a better price.

Hey, I am not blaming you for doing so, but it's real funny when I hear anti union jetblue pilots say this, when we are discussing jetblue benefits. Maybe, just maybe, we should try and negotiate some better benefits, including Medical and retirement.

Asking nicely for it hasn't turned out so well.

 

[Dizel8]

BB said:

"The ALPA supporters pick and choose the great parts of every contract out there as their promise for greener pastures. Really? Our first contract will most likely be concessionary no matter what these ALPA supporters will tell you, that is just a fact of first contracts. What if we do end up with industry standard"

First question would be, and this should be an easy one for you, you do claim to know. Which first contracts have been concessionary under ALPA, it would be great if you can supply us with some examples?

Secondly, ALPA hasn't "promised" us anything other than the ability to collectively bargain, I certainly haven't heard any guarantees that we will get this or that. All we will get is a legally recognized seat at the table. Now, while there are no guarantees, there are certain things that we might get, things that are currently not available to us under the current rules, such as a separate 401(k) plan, separate medical plan. Of course, perhaps you don't need such things, if you use TriCare and have a good Military retirement.

 

[Flyby1206]

I am going to get seriously blasted by every pro-union guy on here, but i'll put on my fire proof suit. Please read this:

http://www.swelblog.com/articles/autos-airlines-and-the-question-of-union-relevance.html

The Journal continues: “Mr. King's dilemma is evident in his lukewarm response to the Big Three's opening gambit in this year's quadrennial contract talks, an offer of enlarged profit-sharing. Here's the problem: Incentive pay is earned pay; workers see profits as something businesses create, not something union bosses create. And the foreign transplants will only be too happy to compete on the basis of performance-related pay. If the industry is headed toward compensation based on success, what are workers getting for their UAW dues?”

I see it clearly as a way to better align the interests of workers and management across an entire business cycle and as a way to avoid the crazy cycle of take/give/take and the resulting bad blood and mistrust between union leadership, employees and management.

Think about this: If variable compensation was in place following the concessionary period of 1993 – 1995, workers would have gained far more between 1996 – 2001, the most profitable period in airline history when U.S. airlines earned in excess of $40 billion. Instead employees received nothing with few exceptions.

 

[aewanabe]

Because it is much better insurance at a better price.

I'll try to address this without flaming you. I came from the same place you are coming from. It is about 5 times better here. I have no problem with you coming here to better your life, Blue will do that for you.

That being said, when I came from Regional X (and I was in the top 400 when I left) I paid more here for crappier insurance. At the original payscale on the 190 I would never have broken even without upgrading. (My prayer at the time was to get onto the bus after 2 years, and it only took 4). My point? It should be TEN TIMES better here. Go ahead, be excited to work here and get out of regional hell. Welcome aboard. But Please, for the love of Bedford don't for a minute tell us that because it's better than freakin' RAH we don't need improvements. Fly a few months in our shoes first.

 

[sayagain?]

JB is hiring these pilots from the regionals and the new hires are happy as $hit! For most, is a step up for them. They seem to be content with what they currently have and don't want to cause any waves with the union vote. Well, work here for a few years and you'll change your mind. Look long term!

As for the comment about using your spouse's insurance, well, I'm glad you have that option. Most don't and that's why we're fighting for change. And the only way we can get that is through a CBA.

 

[StopNTSing]

BB, you need to wake up and smell the coffee: B6 will be acquired by someone within the next five years.....ten at the outside. Maybe AA, maybe SWA (hope not!), maybe LCC. When that happens you will definitely want to be unionized!

 

[HA25]

Congratulations ALPA drive organizers. Your JB management has now suspended our 5 amendments to our PEA contracts. These improvements were within weeks of being achieved and would have been additional items on the negotiating table for our first contract if we went the ALPA route... Instead, ALPA filed at the worst possible time to the NMB.

This action has proved two things. One, that ALPA, before we are even members of the organization, has already screwed up for us. And two, that for those who think this JB management team will be amicable negotiators across the table from us, you're living in a dream world!!!

wow dude... you are one of those guys I hear about, eh?

lost cause.

 

[StarChecker]

I'll try to address this without flaming you. I came from the same place you are coming from. It is about 5 times better here. I have no problem with you coming here to better your life, Blue will do that for you.

That being said, when I came from Regional X (and I was in the top 400 when I left) I paid more here for crappier insurance. At the original payscale on the 190 I would never have broken even without upgrading. (My prayer at the time was to get onto the bus after 2 years, and it only took 4). My point? It should be TEN TIMES better here. Go ahead, be excited to work here and get out of regional hell. Welcome aboard. But Please, for the love of Bedford don't for a minute tell us that because it's better than freakin' RAH we don't need improvements. Fly a few months in our shoes first.

This is exactly what I was about type. I too am a CHQ alum and touting the fact that quality of life and pay get better when you come to B6 from CHQ is settling at best. It's supposed to be better....it's why you come here. That doesn't mean being satisfied with below industry average when compared to other majors.

As far as the union vote....you should be turned off to unions after being a Teamster. The resources ALPA brings to the table are unparalleled. I met 15 ALPA people in Oct and was floored when they reviewed their individual departments' functions. It was impressive. They have 15 guys who sit in cubicles all day and plan PILOT retirement and health insurance plans. Who does that for us now?

Now do I have to pay for the 15 guys in cubicles?....yes....1.95%. It is a sound investment....because no one has the resources to make these improvements now at JetBlue.

When you get here...you'll be pumped on blue juice for a year. Trust those of us who have been here....we need this and we need it now. Don't settle for below average across the board just because it's better than CHQ....that's not saying much.

 

[amcflyboy]

BB, you need to wake up and smell the coffee: B6 will be acquired by someone within the next five years.....ten at the outside. Maybe AA, maybe SWA (hope not!), maybe LCC. When that happens you will definitely want to be unionized!

Yeah well I heard that JB will be buying AA....

 

[thruthemurk]

DING DING DING.... My first and ONLY airline. Isn't that a rare thing nowadays!!! 12 years and counting... How many other ALPA careers follow this kind of path?

Nifty Fifty Alert!! This says it all. You are a genius! Thank god ALPA wasnt here to destroy your meteoric rise. The "failed" airlines you reference have been around 75 years with dozens of managers.

Nothing is forever, you might come down off the pedestal and pick up a history book.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Nothing is forever, you might come down off the pedestal and pick up a history book.

Those who do not know history are doomed to relive it.

 

[$$$4nothin]

JB is hiring these pilots from the regionals and the new hires are happy as $hit! For most, is a step up for them. They seem to be content with what they currently have and don't want to cause any waves with the union vote. Well, work here for a few years and you'll change your mind. Look long term!

As for the comment about using your spouse's insurance, well, I'm glad you have that option. Most don't and that's why we're fighting for change. And the only way we can get that is through a CBA.

I am not sure why all of you guys think that those of us comeing from the regionals are going to be content with what we have. Ya. It is a huge step up, and yes that will make a new hire happy. However I have spent the last 6 years at my regional trying to make it better in every way, so I am sure I will spend the next 30 (hopefully) at B6 trying to do the same. Dont just assume we are all a bunch of "Jokers" just because we are a happy. Seeing a lot of happy B6 pilots in my JS over the years is why I applied in the first place.