JBers, we should be more careful

[side stick-n]

Speedbird,

I'll second that post.

 

[klhoard]

. . . <snip>. . . They got on a tangent about SWA +2% (which I have never heard). . . . . <snip>. . .

I think I've read something very similar to this before somewhere. . . . can any of the FedEx pilots help jog my memory??

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

How long are people going to keep talking about ALPA as if they are the end all of unions?
Anybody keeping track of the pilots their unionship has helped put on the street?
ALPA is great for safety studies and research..

But..The "highest paid to the last day" attitude has helped to just about kill this industry.

Ive experienced ALPA first hand..

Ive got a furlough card to prove it..

Mike

 

[iflynights]

Speedbird,

I agree with almost everything in your post. I don't think any one at jetblue expected industry leading wages, but most did expect a raise. I hope we start a move to unionizing. Not necessariy ALPA, possibly an in house union...

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

It's so amazing how these JB pilots who've been around for a whole year know where our airline's salaries should be. STOP SQWUAKING PLEASE-- you guys talk as if we've been around since the 'Twenties flying mail!!! I liked it much better when we were out flying the line with our five planes trying to make this company what it is today--for you guys who just joined us--what are YOU going to contribute to your airline other than the whining in the crew rooms, cockpits, and message boards?

 

[side stick-n]

iflynights,

Union????
Not just no, HELL NO!

 

[80drvr]

It's so amazing how these JB pilots who've been around for a whole year know where our airline's salaries should be. STOP SQWUAKING PLEASE-- you guys talk as if we've been around since the 'Twenties flying mail!!! I liked it much better when we were out flying the line with our five planes trying to make this company what it is today--for you guys who just joined us--what are YOU going to contribute to your airline other than the whining in the crew rooms, cockpits, and message boards?

So I guess only the senior guys are entitled to an opinion...you're sounding more like a legacy carrier every day! ;o)

 

[lowecur]

Don't worry Bayou, these guys will be weeded out. The contract was set up this way for a reason, and that's to get rid of people who are not team players. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the mgt meetings since the pocket sessions.

I hope you people have sent your apps out. I'm sure that other majors will be just die'n to take a malcontent off of B6's hands. You'll have to let us know how many of you get an interview somewhere else. I know if I were the human resources director for another airline, I wouldn't touch any of you with a 10' pole.

 

[KingKong]

It's so amazing how these JB pilots who've been around for a whole year know where our airline's salaries should be. STOP SQWUAKING PLEASE-- you guys talk as if we've been around since the 'Twenties flying mail!!! I liked it much better when we were out flying the line with our five planes trying to make this company what it is today--for you guys who just joined us--what are YOU going to contribute to your airline other than the whining in the crew rooms, cockpits, and message boards?

Who says that we are new hires? Quite frankly I think you are either in an egnorant bliss or you may be Al Spain or one of his cronies.

This contract is lop-sided and it has nothing to do with our current pay scale. I think we need to take a very strong look at what we're going to sign. I hope that someone that shares these concerns has a buddy or wife or bother, etc, that has the expertise in contract law and can give us advise on how to express my/your concerns in this contract. Who ever is reading this who shares these concerns, lets start looking for advise so we don't waste time and end up signing the contract when all we have to do is ask for help.

 

[Networ-King]

After listening to yesterday's pocket session at the LGB base I am in no hurry to sign my "agreement" either. I strongly suspect that there will be an amended contract sent out shortly after the pocket sessions are completed.

My hat's off to the jetBlue pilots who have voiced their legitimate concerns over this new agreement and for management to have the willingness to meet and listen with them (us).

Now it's time to walk the walk....

I don't know which meeting your talking about and how many there are, but my buddy at the LGB "pocket session" said that there were only two pilots that spoke their mind and he could not believe that....... I don't know any one of you guys, but I know this guy very well and I know he's not full of $hit. Again it could be a different meeting, but he did say that only TWO pilots voiced their opinion about the NEW contract. ......

 

[KingKong]

Don't worry Bayou, these guys will be weeded out. The contract was set up this way for a reason, and that's to get rid of people who are not team players. I would love to be a fly on the wall in the mgt meetings since the pocket sessions.

I hope you people have sent your apps out. I'm sure that other majors will be just die'n to take a malcontent off of B6's hands. You'll have to let us know how many of you get an interview somewhere else. I know if I were the human resources director for another airline, I wouldn't touch any of you with a 10' pole.

Felling is mutual, however double the pole length please!

 

[whyohwhy]

Al Spain is the cancer. He's the one who convinced the board to stick with the payrates. He's always been the big cheerleader for them. I couldn't believe his response to some of the hard hitting questions today at the pocket session. He actually told a military bro of mine that the 190 pay was justified because none of us were bringing any actual 190 experience to the table. That's like saying that the FedEx guys deserve sh#t wages when the A380's come on board because nobody will have had any time on the airframe!

I truely think his motivation is to prop up our sagging stock price as much as he can, so that when he bails in a few more years he'll leave with extra millions. And if I see him do that finger thing one more time, I think I'll puke.

Never trust a guy who wears a bowtie! Everytime I follow Gean Shalut's advice on a movie recommendation, I'm dissapointed too.

Fire away!

PS Blue Bayou, get off your high-horse. I get so sick of hearing the word "senior" used at JetBlue. You have 4 freakin years in at the company, whoopidy doo! At the previous major I briefly flew for, some of those gents were entitled to use the word. Then again, they were hired in the 60's, when saying you're an airline pilot actually meant something. And yes, I can't wait to get recalled.

 

[AlbieF15]

I have no dog in this fight, except I know a lot of great people I've helped get ready for the big JetBlue interviews...

I also had the chance to be part of the JetBlue in Jan 02 but went to FedEx instead...

One thing I learned in both fighter squadrons and at the Purple place is fights among pilots are best left in private places. I may think a bro is a dumba$$ for something he said or did in our squadron, but I will not tolerate someone from another squadron criticizing a squadronmate. To help prevent such an event, I NEVER TALK CRAP about someone in the squadron outside our own walls. I'll deal with the problem internally, but outside those walls we are all Tassholes, Hornets, Gamecocks, Tigers, or Boneheads...and we are THE BEST.

Seems like there are some issues to work out at JB. Love Mgt or hate them, if you want anything done, union or no union, you have to stick together. Sniping at each other and basing your opinions on past company/military experience is a waste. You guys need a PRIVATE forum to discuss strategies and come together (PPRUNE?) and you need to support each other (union or not...).

FYI...publically bashing management might make you feel better, but polarizing camps at this stage likely isn't smart. If you want to organize--do it! If you want to give the company time to make this "right"--fine! But I think slinging arrows back and forth among pilots (especially in public) will only undermine either effort (and makes you look a bit juvenille at times if you aren't careful)

I wish all of you the very best of luck. Seems like you have the "magic in a bottle" for a while. I hope you manage to keep it! At the same time, I have seen the quality of JetBlue hopefuls over the last 2 years, and they have been a very impressive group of folks. If these ERJ rates hold, however, the ability to recruit such quality will likey be tougher. I know you will still have a great company, but a lot of talent has flowed towards JetBlue based on the promise of a career promising rapid upgrades to A320 captain at good pay rates and an atmosphere of mutual respect and goodwill. If JetBlue morphs into "just another airline company" with "standard management" and a defacto B-scale payrate, the kind of talent on the property now will become even harder to recruit. Haves (A320 captains and senior ERJ guys) and have nots (new hires stuck as RJ FOs for 3-5 years) will bicker and snipe at each other along the way. And while lots of folks will say "I told you so...", I for one will be sorry to see the slide toward mediocrity and the tendancy to become like "all the rest". I hope either a honest review by mgt or some kind of pilot initiative can provide a new pay scale that can make everyone a bit happier.

And lowcur....this is yet another reason that bringing a second, albeit cheaper type of plane into the SWA model can be a bad idea. Saving a few CASMs here or there but gutting worker esprit and elan is simply being penny wise and pound foolish. Perhaps this type of "b scale, b team, minor league" or whatever euphamism you want division is exactly what SWA knew to avoid in its crew force.

Standard disclaimer--just a fighter pilot and I may be wrong....

 

[whyohwhy]

Albie,


As always, a very thoughtful and thought provoking reply. And they say us fighter pukes have more ego than brain! I'll take your advice and lay low. Hopefully we'll be able to come together and get through this. I'm all for trying to get a private message board going...any takers?

Blue Bayou, I'm sorry for attacking you. I just want to feel like we're all in this together, for the better of JetBlue - those of us on the property now, and those to fill in the ranks in the future.

 

[Blue Dude]

Albie,

Thank you. Somebody had to say it. While I'm as disappointed as many of those posting here, I refuse to air our dirty laundry in public. I haven't posted in quite a while because I haven't had much positive to say, airing grievances here accomplishes nothing, and actually hurts us all in the long run. If you're so disappointed that you're definitely going to leave, fine. Complain loudly to those in charge so they know they screwed up, and then quietly exit stage left. Best of luck to you. But we can all do without the nasty parting shots in a public forum. Maybe the JetBlue management team will recover from this mistake and make things right, maybe not. Either way, if you're definitely leaving it's no longer your problem, so get the heck out of the way and don't make it more difficult for those us remaining to mop up the mess. Thank you.