JBers, we should be more careful

[KingKong]

After going through the JB contact in some detail, I personally can’t find anything that would affect me, the individual, from signing it. I don’t think that the pay is that bad for me and I don’t expect I’ll be terminated under the conditions explained in the contract, but someone could be affected and the cards are in JB’s hands. I am bothered like everyone else seems to be on the grounds that the 190 pay levels are low for the industry. What about general wage increases in the future and protection under wrongful termination? I am feeling more exposed and less represented and protected. You, too, should feel this way since this is a solo arrangement between me/you and the company.



I don’t have much experience dealing in employment contracts since I came out of the military. I wouldn’t be able to point to a good or bad one. In this contract there really isn’t much ability for our inputs for fair compensation during times of growth. In the short term, the management is right, the pilots going into the 190 will be making more over the year then any other new hire based on a rapidly needed upgrade. New hires will be making close to $70k to $80k a year. In contras, five years down the road, some poor individual will have to suck up the $35 /hr wage and stay there for possibly years. When I say poor, I mean someone that this is the best they can do even though their skill level should promote more wages. I don’t see that the contract allows us, a group of pilots, to influence better conditions for those who will be junior to us. It is our responsibility to protect the future of our people in this company and I think we should express these concerns. It’s good for the company and pilots.



As one would expect the company has built this contract in there best interest. We are exposed and lack protection in the section 12. Individuals should have more compensation in section 10 if we are not at fault. Under section 10, Dispute Resolution, in cases of termination, should the Arbitrator find that the Pilot was not terminated in accordance with Section 12 (Discharge), the Pilot deserves more then the contract offers. I think this should be fixed along with other issues that are similar.



This contract was written and reviewed by the company. I truly believe that JB DOES CARE about me. I think that most of the contract is generous and sincere. It’s obvious that management is getting edgy about our concerns due to the fact they’re in full damage control mode now as seen by the increased pocket sessions. Don’t be fooled, they are there to sell the program, not take our ideas and adjust the current contract. This leads me to believe that there could be less then adequate representation from our group and we should demand our inputs be included if reasonable. We do have the right to organize. This doesn’t mean we have to form a union, but we could form our own association that represent our concerns and have input toward our combined interest. Some will reply that we have the Values Committee that would perform this function, but no offense to them, they didn’t have any insight into the new contract. I do believe we should organize and start a committee formed by us, the pilots, with the first line of business to get our expert opinion on the contract before us. With the 890 pilots and growing, a small contribution from each in the group could be enough hiring an expert in contract law that could be useful and allow our concerns to be articulated in the contract.

 

[Heywood Jiblome]

I do believe we should organize and start a committee formed by us, the pilots, with the first line of business to get our expert opinion on the contract before us. With the 890 pilots and growing, a small contribution from each in the group could be enough hiring an expert in contract law that could be useful and allow our concerns to be articulated in the contract.

and so it begins.....if it looks, smells and tastes like a union, don't be afraid to call it one......this is not flame bait....I agree with most of what you say (except that you think the initial -190 rates are fair) so don't think I'm talking badly about your post......I think that most people I've talked with here at JB feel that, sooner or later, some sort of representation (shhh....union) will be inevitable. This type of action by mgmt will only serve to hasten the process. I'm not saying we need ALPA...SWA has done pretty darn well without them.....but some sort of collective voice is needed so they don't just talk at us, rather with us about the future of OUR company........

 

[KingKong]

Heywood,

I don't think the 190 rate is fair, I think it sucks but the first couple years there won't be to much bitching becuase of the high upgrade rate. I think the contract misses the point here and should be adjusted.

 

[Skater]

I totally agree with that. You guys are basically flying a 737 at below low end RJ rates.

 

[bigred]

I don't know if flightinfo has the capability to create an area exclusively for Jetblue pilots, but I know Pprune . org does. Southwest has an active room over on PPrune and it allows for a "free flow" of ideas without all the comments from the peanut gallery. It would probably be a good idea to start a room over there that allows Jetblue guys and gals to discuss their contract internally.

 

[iflynights]

I would be in favor of representation at Jetblue. After this last contract debacle, I realized that we can have committees at the a$$ and still have zero say in how we are compensated, retained (5 year contract), or QOL.

I attended one of the pocket sessions. Obviously, the lack of a raise and very low 190 pay was addressed. Their answer was that need to keep a low cost structure. They also mentioned the quick upgrade, etc, etc. They got on a tangent about SWA +2% (which I have never heard). I don't think any JB pilot expected SWA pay, but I think most thought they were going to get a 10-15% raise, and that the 190 pay would start around $90 or so. I think the cost structure would still be rock bottom at these rates since we get no retirement (except for 3% 401k matching) or major airline work rules. I realize JB is a growth company and simply can't shell out Delta dollars for pay, but they can certainly do better than this.

I have been at JB for over a year and should make captain early next spring, but I (and several friends) have put in apps at SWA, FDX, etc. I guess if enough people talk with their feet, they might start listening. I will definitely go back to my prior carrier when recalled now, when before I considered JB a real career possibility (if I can't get on with SWA before then). And for those at JB that don't think we are bringing down the industry, think again. I personally care about this profession, and 70 bucks an hour as a 100 seat jet captain is selling out the industry. But, unfortunately, we have complained about the pay (how many pilot felt adequately compensated, 50% or so?) and I doubt we will see an about face by management. I guess I need to read "flying the line" again....

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

Unions arent all that bad, SWAPA has presented many ideas to save WN money over the years and through hard work and research these ideas ended up being a win win. Without swapa i think it would have taken a lot longer to get some of these policies in place if ever.

 

[KingKong]

I suggest that anyone that hasn't signed the contract to delay signing it until the last day you can. This would give us some time to see what our options are. No-harm/no-foul. There may be someone out there that can help us investigate what we can do, don’t you think? If we don’t come up with any solutions to the possible problem/challenges we face, we sign the contract by 5 Oct. If you agree, then tell your buds to pass it on. We can at least try to correct what we think may be wrong with the contract, which I think we all believe is bad for the company and industry.

 

[iflynights]

I can certainly wait to sign it...

I suggest that anyone that hasn't signed the contract to delay signing it until the last day you can. This would give us some time to see what our options are. No-harm/no-foul. There may be someone out there that can help us investigate what we can do, don’t you think? If we don’t come up with any solutions to the possible problem/challenges we face, we sign the contract by 5 Oct. If you agree, then tell your buds to pass it on. We can at least try to correct what we think may be wrong with the contract, which I think we all believe is bad for the company and industry.

 

[Vortilon]

King,

Don't confuse people being nice to you with the company "caring" about you. Any time you have an employee number you are a resource to be managed and that is all.

Good luck to you guys over there! The early days/years of establishing representation are not pretty ones and it may take a couple contracts (10 years) to get what you were hoping for in the first place. But if JetBlue is where you intend on spending you career, I think it will be entirely worth it in the long run.

Regardless of what you think about JB Management, ALPA, SWAPA, APA, Teamsters, etc. the aviation system works better with checks and balances in place.