JBers, we should be more careful

[KingKong]

Vortilon, Good point! Thanks for the positive response.

 

[Swede]

JB Guys, you must remember "those who will come after". Don't sit on your 1 yr upgrade and gloat, pave the way so the shmuck hired 5 years from now won't be on food stamps. The most effective unions are those that transcend seniority. Otherwise you will have a 2-tiered pilot group and some seriously bitter future new hires.

 

[#1 Windmilling]

"I have been at JB for over a year and should make captain early next spring, but I (and several friends) have put in apps at SWA, FDX, etc. I guess if enough people talk with their feet, they might start listening. I will definitely go back to my prior carrier when recalled now, when before I considered JB a real career possibility (if I can't get on with SWA before then)."

I Fly Nights,
I think this is exactly the point! Jet Blue management is running a business with a goal of maintaining a 15% profit margin. They are fully aware of how many pilots are on the street and how few airlines are hiring. The industry is flat on its back with wages and benefits deteriorating everyday! Why would they have any incentive to offer a raise? The 190 rates are absurdly low, however management at Jet Blue sees this as a chance to make a lot of money. They know they will have pilots lining up to fly them. This is a business decision.
I was certainly disappointed by the lack of a raise, especially when there was so much talk about it. I have no doubt that a raise will be forthcoming when they see people leaving the company. However, let's be real, no one is going back to their old carriers anytime soon! They know this, this is business, nothing more, nothing less. It's just a disappointment for so many who really believed JB was different. It is the same circus, just different colored tents.

-#1W

 

[SpeedBird]

After listening to yesterday's pocket session at the LGB base I am in no hurry to sign my "agreement" either. I strongly suspect that there will be an amended contract sent out shortly after the pocket sessions are completed.

I don't know what will be changed but I don't think management can expect the pilot group to accept all the terms as presently put forth. I was impressed by both sides candor and professional manner in which the meeting was conducted. While I won't go into details I will say that jetBlue pilots are not afraid to tell the executuve-level crewmembers exactly how they feel about the agreement, and the process by which it was created.

One thing both groups strongly agreed on was the absolute necessity to keep intact the great working culture and environment that has been in place up to this point. I was most impressed that the comments were made with regard to those jetBlue pilots who have not yet been hired and the need to ensure they will be equal partners with the current pilot group going forward. JetBlue management has acted in a manner that has put this in serious jeopardy and I applaud all the jetBlue pilots who showed great courage to step up and speak very eloquently on this and other related issues while keeping the focus on what is best for jetBlue long-term.

I watched the faces of those senior managers who attended this meeting and they showed great concern in their body language as numerous pilots spoke. They were also writing down notes at a furious rate to keep up with the many recommendations that were being offered. I will now sit back and wait to see how "D3 & A" respond to the pilots. I am betting that they will do what is right/needed to restore the pilots' confidence in their management abilities. I believe they have used up all their remaining goodwill and absolutely cannot repeat this same kind of mistake in the future.

I will also add that any jetBlue pilot both present and future who works for this company that entertains the idea of someday being paid "industry leading" pay rates; and enjoying top shelf work rules (reminicient of a bygone era) better look for someplace else to go fly airplanes. Pilots at jetBlue need to intimately understand the jetBlue business model and how you (we) fit into that system and what is expected over the long-term. The model demands high efficiency from its employees who must also recognize that every controllable cost at this airline will be scrutinized and managed closely, including your (our) hourly pay rates. So if you were planning on buying that cute little cape cod out in the Hamptons 10 years from now, based on jetBlue's future pay rates, you better get a reality check and lower your monetary reward expectations.

I will end with this thought provided by one of the executives at the meeting. He said that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to do the opposite. The context it was expressed in was based on not giving too much to jetBlue employees too soon only to have to take it back later because management's expectations over the their strategic plans fell short and put the company in financial jeoporady. Management is very aware that there are no sure things going forward and the introduction of the EMB-190 has potential risks to the company that could be significant. I can accept that rationale for now but will be closely watching what develops in the near future.

My hat's off to the jetBlue pilots who have voiced their legitimate concerns over this new agreement and for management to have the willingness to meet and listen with them (us).

Now it's time to walk the walk....

 

[sleepy]

I would just add that being in ALPA is about more than just getting a bigger paycheck. APLA offers some pretty good group insurance benefits, a lawyer if you get into trouble, an accident investigation team, top-notch work on safety issues that effect all pilots, a voice in Washington, DC, a pretty good medical staff if you lose your medical, and job protections if you get into trouble with management.

 

[side stick-n]

Speedbird,

I'll second that post.

 

[klhoard]

. . . <snip>. . . They got on a tangent about SWA +2% (which I have never heard). . . . . <snip>. . .

I think I've read something very similar to this before somewhere. . . . can any of the FedEx pilots help jog my memory??

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

How long are people going to keep talking about ALPA as if they are the end all of unions?
Anybody keeping track of the pilots their unionship has helped put on the street?
ALPA is great for safety studies and research..

But..The "highest paid to the last day" attitude has helped to just about kill this industry.

Ive experienced ALPA first hand..

Ive got a furlough card to prove it..

Mike

 

[iflynights]

Speedbird,

I agree with almost everything in your post. I don't think any one at jetblue expected industry leading wages, but most did expect a raise. I hope we start a move to unionizing. Not necessariy ALPA, possibly an in house union...

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

It's so amazing how these JB pilots who've been around for a whole year know where our airline's salaries should be. STOP SQWUAKING PLEASE-- you guys talk as if we've been around since the 'Twenties flying mail!!! I liked it much better when we were out flying the line with our five planes trying to make this company what it is today--for you guys who just joined us--what are YOU going to contribute to your airline other than the whining in the crew rooms, cockpits, and message boards?