JB pilots just got a facial from mgmt.

[oldxfr8dog]

A union on this property would mean the company has no obligation but to our contract we negotiate with them. What obligation do they have now? What obligation will Barger's or Chew's replacement have? They'll be happy to give us our pay/benefit increases-- They didn't give us increases when we had 17% profit margins, what is the threshhold? and us senior guys will be happy for it too. There will have to be some give and take of course; the company is drastically reducing our schedule this fall-- they don't need about 200 pilots I figure. So, bub-bye!!! What do you mean buh-bye? What about the collection of guarantee for the duration of our contracts? We'll get ours, the company will be happy, and then the stage is set for displaced pilots in our ranks. 320/190 Capts down to FO, see what kind of pay cut that'll be!!!

What do you mean, "We'll get ours."?

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

That's really easy for you to say when you're a Have vs. a Have-Not.

I'm fine with a union. Lay off about 200-300 guys, who will get a 100% pay cut for our pay raises (cost neutral). Oh by the way, then bump the guys down from Capt to FO on the 320 and 190 and then see what their pay cut will also be. Sometimes, status-quo is not a bad thing!!!

 

[waveflyer]

first year pay down-- fantastic -- keep taking leverage away from the industry-- wages need to flatten out- not the other way around. Especially first year wages. If pilots around the industry knew they could make money in year 1 at the next job- they'd be more willing to take a stand at year 15 in their current one.

THINK LONG TERM

 

[sweptback]

Why on earth would first year pay be lowered?

 

[Motorradfahrer]

Why on earth would first year pay be lowered?

Possible future hiring post Sept. 1st when these pay scales take effect??? We keep hearing that we are overstaffed for now but who knows what will happen a few months down the line if we pick up more E190's and add routes

 

[Spectre]

Look at what hes flown. He is a military guy. They typically dont like unions.

Exactly, he's probably stuck on the thought that doing something for his country is better than doing something for himself.

Here's how a military would operate if their pilots had a union...

"What the f-over, I have to fly an airplane into all of those threat rings...I'll be shot at from AAA and SAMs? Sorry, our new CBA says I don't have to do that."

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Exactly, he's probably stuck on the thought that doing something for his country is better than doing something for himself.

Here's how a military would operate if their pilots had a union...

"What the f-over, I have to fly an airplane into all of those threat rings...I'll be shot at from AAA and SAMs? Sorry, our new CBA says I don't have to do that."

Ridiculous and dishonest comparison.
Your company is NOT your country. I served my country for $98 a month, but I'm not going to donate my time and experience to a for-profit company.
Management's LEGAL responsibility is to the Stockholders and they answer to the BOD. Their job is to minimize costs and that's YOUR paycheck and benefits.
If you own a small, personal business and want to set limits on compensation, fine. I think that's your right.
If you are management for a PUBLICLY owned company and receive bonuses for minimizing employee costs, that's a whole different game.
I owe it to my family to receive fair compensation.

 

[Flyer1015]

I just wanted to say that the thread title is hilarious.

 

[t6av8r]

I am an AA '86 hire, and I'm pissed off. Pilots took a 23% pay cut (along with sick/medical/vacation cuts) to keep the airline out of BR. How does managament show their appreciation? TWO major PUP bonuses in the hundresd of millions of dollars. In 2007 AA earned almost $500M (out trigger for profit sharing). What did we get? $800! That's right.....EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS....BEFORE TAXES! Every employee, from the 777 CA to the most junior toilet cleaner got the exact same thing. CAL 737 CA? $15000. CAL 737 FO? $7000. DAL 737 CA? $7000 (these numbers are approx, but you get my point). CAL management will not take pay or bonuses this year. What as AA managament done besides drive a huge wedge between themselves and the employees.

We need a NATIONAL strike of airline pilots. I don't care what day, but one day ALL airline pilots (yes, JB and AirTran too) need to say "enough is enough" and just sit one out. If you're not willing to fight for your profession, who will? Farris? Icahn? Lorenzo? Carty?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ridiculous and dishonest comparison.
Your company is NOT your country. I served my country for $98 a month, but I'm not going to donate my time and experience to a for-profit company.
Management's LEGAL responsibility is to the Stockholders and they answer to the BOD. Their job is to minimize costs and that's YOUR paycheck and benefits.
If you own a small, personal business and want to set limits on compensation, fine. I think that's your right.
If you are management for a PUBLICLY owned company and receive bonuses for minimizing employee costs, that's a whole different game.
I owe it to my family to receive fair compensation.

Said another way... companies are not in service their country. They do not operate for duty, honor, country....

So should its employees and/or pilots? At a pilots expenses?

We need a NATIONAL strike of airline pilots. I don't care what day, but one day ALL airline pilots (yes, JB and AirTran too) need to say "enough is enough" and just sit one out. If you're not willing to fight for your profession, who will? Farris? Icahn? Lorenzo? Carty?

Know your history...

A national strike is not workable. IN addition the PATCO and APA failures have made unions in effective.

What will work is a National Demonstration. 20,000 pilots on the National Mall in DC is in effect a "strike".

There was a "labor" day in 2007.....on the DC Mall. Want to know how many pilots showed up.... And how close it was to 20,000.

It starts with us.....


The Jet Blue Pilots Association is critical because it will allow the jB pilots to switch from independent contrators (individualists) to professional Air Line Pilots. IOW it will be what I can I do for me... to what can we do for you, the public and the profession.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

You serve your country to defend the constitution and democracy..... only to be a jB pilot and reject democracy? Why all that personal sacrifice only to reject your rights?

Please don't tell me that I, a civilian only, appreciate and am more grateful to you, than you, for protecting liberty, freedom, democracy and self governance

Yeah right, Democracy. Let's see, who did ALPA endorse in the last election. And don't tell me they don't tell you how to vote either...

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah right, Democracy. Let's see, who did ALPA endorse in the last election. And don't tell me they don't tell you how to vote either...

An endorsement is not "telling you how to vote." It's merely a recommendation. I was an ALPA rep at the time, and I voted for GWB (which I now regret).

 

[banger]

Congratulations on the pay raise.

I'm in my 2nd year at a major cargo airline. I make 220% of what you make. Again, I'm not trying to be a dikc,

You failed!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah right, Democracy. Let's see, who did ALPA endorse in the last election. And don't tell me they don't tell you how to vote either...

It is alarming that a US Armed Forces Officer has such a reply. Yes, I am an ALPA advocate, however, I never brought ALPA into the discussion.

All I have advocated is democracy and self rule. Do you not grasp that concept? You show up to work do what you are told and go home. Yes you have PIC authority, but that is for safety, not quality of life, work rules, profession and career.

As an Armed Forces Officer you should have some idea of politics.

Politics is everything in the Air Line Pilot profession. You can work for jB and pretend that all is required is showing up, flying your trip and going home. You can do that.. but I assure you decisions are being made regularly that effect and control your career at jB. Your quagmire is you have no say in those decisions that effect you. You are at anothers whim.

Jetblue management is firmly integrated into Washington DC politics. Management understands that if you want to be at the table of change you have to play politics.. That is why jB has been a member of the ATA.

Capitalism and employment is not democracy. Only those that are willing to stand up for themselves will gain the right and benefit of self governance.

 

[clickclickboom]

Exactly, he's probably stuck on the thought that doing something for his country is better than doing something for himself.

Here's how a military would operate if their pilots had a union...

"What the f-over, I have to fly an airplane into all of those threat rings...I'll be shot at from AAA and SAMs? Sorry, our new CBA says I don't have to do that."

hey Fox do you employ the same mentality when you ride in the back of another captains plane and then write him up for taxiing too slow? Its always amazing too hear the 5% contingent spout off when the stark reality is that they are actually the the most self centered, arrogant people out there.

 

[highsky]

You failed!

OK tool. Just stick your head in the sand and ignore the obvious.

Let's just "pretend" that the worker bees like you and I have no say in our futures. Is that what you want to believe? Just let the wise management decide what's best for us? The fact of the matter is...some pilots are making WAY more than JB pilots. Would you like to ignore that? Should we pretend that isn't happening? Should guys like me keep our mouths shut? Is that your solution to this industry crisis? Do you find solace in reading other posts on this board about how everyone is getting screwed like you? Where is the solution in that?

No, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, cuz I'm not. But I do know this...it's a sad day when people like YOU cut down people like ME for advocating a lifestyle and compensation package that benefits ALL of us.

Go F yourself, idiot.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Clickaclickaboomboom: It's not bad enough that the bluepilots gang even infiltrates this forum. But to personally attack another crewmember by name, well that's just not right. You wonder why there are so many pilots turned off by bluepilots and JBPA? Just keep this up and you'll be spending the next 10 years trying to unionize this pilot group. The title of this thread is enough to spell that out to many who frequent this forum.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Well arent there two with that name? But if that guy did write up a fellow capt. for that reason he should be outted!

 

[whippingboy]

[quote=highsky;1618006

I'm not trying to be a tool.

I'm in my 2nd year at a major cargo airline. I make 220% of what you make. Again, I'm not trying to be a dikc,


I always laugh when people start a sentence with "I'm not trying to be a..............." Usually that means they're about to be the adjective that follows the word a.......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Clickaclickaboomboom: It's not bad enough that the bluepilots gang even infiltrates this forum. But to personally attack another crewmember by name, well that's just not right. You wonder why there are so many pilots turned off by bluepilots and JBPA? Just keep this up and you'll be spending the next 10 years trying to unionize this pilot group. The title of this thread is enough to spell that out to many who frequent this forum.

I would think that your duty as an American to democracy and its practice would actually motivate you to support the JBPA.

Personal attacks from individual persons have nothing to do with what is best for the collective: democracy.

That you would equate 'personal attacks' as a reason to reject self rule and liberty is disapointing...