JB pilots file with NMB

[Splert]

Would someone post this PCRB report or link.

 

[elag777]

Here's why a 3rd year E190 FO who sent in his card is now on the fence. With no chance in the near future to move seats, I've had SEVERAL A320 captains tell me they're supporting JBPA because they didn't get a raise and that by giving me a merely 5% (still less per hour than those 500 numbers junior to me) that the wealth is being spread around. Know your audience. I don't want the top guys having any more influence than they already have. Do they need a raise, yes, but they'll throw me under the bus to get it. Is that short sighted, maybe, but I assure you my current obligations to my family are not and I don't live beyond my means. I appreciate the way the JBPA constitution allows for equal representation but the senior guys' "robbing Peter to pay Paul" arguments are falling on deaf ears. You senior guys are not helping your cause. My raise is not coming at the expense of yours. Do you really think a $3 raise for 50-100 guys is anything other than a drop in the ocean? Maybe someone can tell me how it's management's fault that I can't bid off the 190 without growth, but I don't see how that will change with JBPA. Now, convince me that a true seniority system will pay in accordance with seniority and you may have another "yes" vote. I'm not ideological, I'm pragmatic. One list, remember.

Bingo! someone gets it! I'd rather take my 2% and turn it into a $150k IRA by the end of my career. It has and always been the old (senior guys) eating the young.....(junior guys) don't dignify the "fight" to be anything else but me me me and I I I... first on the "blank" piece of paper will be furlough and displacement language...can't wait!uke:

 

[ArmadilloJackal]

I cannot control that, the company can, yet, you insinuate that I have some control over the issue, but I know you know better.

No, I don't think that is fair, not by a long shot, but to make the 320 pilots the scapegoats for this is dishonest.

I, while only speaking for myself, wants what is best for all of us, I don't think that is what the company wants, they wants was is best for keeping us divided and I hate to say this, but some are taking the bait hook, line and sinker!

I want to be compensated at the level of my peers, compensated according to what I contribute to the company. The PCRB report spoke volumes as did the MIT study.

You and I are not enemies, we are brothers in arms, and if we don't stand together, we will most assuredly fail!

I agree with you, we're on the same side. I do not blame the 320 guys, I just haven't made up my mind and want to hear all arguments. The PCRB report was a Herculean achievement in a short amount of time. We definitely have talent in our ranks. Regardless of anyone's personal choice, I trust they are making what they think to be the best decision with the information they have. I don't think anyone has nefarious motives.

 

[Dave's kid]

Bingo! someone gets it! I'd rather take my 2% and turn it into a $150k IRA by the end of my career. It has and always been the old (senior guys) eating the young.....(junior guys) don't dignify the "fight" to be anything else but me me me and I I I... first on the "blank" piece of paper will be furlough and displacement language...can't wait!uke:

It often amazes me that union's turn to the eat their young mentality quickly. Everyone says they want to protect all people, but when it comes time for someone to get screwed it almost always is done in reverse seniority order.

 

[Dave's kid]

Would someone post this PCRB report or link.

Nope. It's 64 pages long and proprietary. If you know someone at JB ask them to give you a copy.

 

[Splert]

Bingo! someone gets it! I'd rather take my 2% and turn it into a $150k IRA by the end of my career. It has and always been the old (senior guys) eating the young.....(junior guys) don't dignify the "fight" to be anything else but me me me and I I I... first on the "blank" piece of paper will be furlough and displacement language...can't wait!uke:

Except that our crap medical plan will eat up more than the 1-2% you say you will save.

Our total out of pocket maximum per year is over $14,000 a year and does not include RX drugs.

Also our retirement is 30% less than average.

Oh yes...so is our sick time accural and bank. We are forced to buy our sick time coverage from the company: STD.

4 day trips credit 16 hours.

and the list goes on...

 

[starvingredtail]

Exactly... meaning more power to the people... or in this case.. to the pilots....

That the whole point of a union... to give more voice to the pilots.... When a jB pilot comes to work he does what he agreed to, but if that agreement changes, then he comes to work and does what he is told.....


Simply put, jB views its pilots like it does the rest of its employees. When it comes to respect for all, that is fine, but when it comes to compensation for education, experience, certification and responsibility there needs to be reward for responsibility...


Why is it jB takes the hard worked money generated by its pilots and uses it to lobby our gov't? When jB does that does jB management represent its pilots? Yet laws effect jB pilots are passed on CapHill. Who speak for jB pilots? And even if someone did, would they speak as well for jB pilots as they would themselves.

Once a union is formed the representation is governed by federal law.


JBPA is getting great guidance by SWAPA.... and this will be a big help....

Jet Blue pilots do need representation of some type due mostly to a lack of trust that has developed because of some boneheaded mgt. appointments and policies. However, the thing that I am focusing on is the concept that unions are somehow "all American" and that being in a union makes you a better American blah blah blah. Hell, you might as well say its patriotic to be in a union like Joe Biden thinks you are a patriot by paying more than your fair shair of taxes! If you cut down on that nonsence, we can probably talk about what a union would do for JB. Your "Exactly... meaning more power to the people... or in this case.. to the pilots...." is not factually true. Now pilots need to belong to another large political body, a union, which has all the ills that the original US constitution tried to iron out. This is not "power to the individual", (rember your individual freedoms?) but instead casting your lot with a large, many times corrupt, group. Unions have their place. I still have an ALPA card. But they are not "Mom and apple pie" America.

 

[Tired in KTol]

ArmadilloJackal...

Your concerns about the Senior eating the Junior are very valid and I appreciate them. I truly believe that the JBPA idea of blocks of seniority getting equal voting rights will really help to stop this and will allow the junior to have an equal voice.

This union vote is about so much more than just this topic though. Please go to the jetbluepilots.org site and read the PCRB rebuttal.

For me, this is all about these items:
1) The chance for a pilot's medical plan
2) The chance for a pilot's insurance plan and REAL LOL and short/longterm disability geared towards pilots, not bag smashers and gate agents
3) The chance at a "B" plan, because we fail ERISA every year, and as the company grows, its unsustainable for them to give everyone else an extra contribution so the Highly Compensated Employees don't take in the shorts on their 401K.
4) I want to be represented by a CBA so that when UAL or Continental or Frontier or USAirways decides to buy us, we are DEFINITELY covered by the new merger laws passed by congress. I don't want to have to start that fight by trying to learn if we are really even covered by the law.
5) I want a union in place BEFORE Barger retires and hands the keys over to Frank Lorenzo. I don't want to read the press release and think...."I wonder how long it will take to put a union on property now that we REALLY need the protection".

These are just a handful of reasons. I have more... but these are the big ones.

Great post j32. I sat right next to you in newhire initial and could not agree more. For me this is a business decision. As a middle age 320fo with relatively low seniority I need a voice and the current committee structure does not work. I respect those individuals that do not want a union, however there are some who have no opinion at all. They are in all seats and they truly do not care either way. I told one guy if you really don't care then please just vote for the rest of us, if not let me give you a revolver with one round in it so you can play russian roullete.
Contrary to what my avatar might suggest I actually like it here and want to stay,but in its current form this is just a job for me. If it takes a union to turn this back into a career then so be it. The company had its chance, now hopefully this pilot group will come together.

 

[clickclickboom]

I bid approx 30% in JFK 320FO and am behind this 110%.

I absolutely can see the position of non supporters and respect that position. I just hope that they take the time and instead of closing the door they really take the opportunity to educate themselves and ask questions.

I have seen to many subtle changes here that the comapny just slips by us that have had a huge cumulative affect on my career prospects and quality of life here.

 

[J32driver]

Tired in Ktol.... GOOD TO SEE YOU AROUND HERE. If I ever make it off this crashpad couch and down to your kneck of the woods, I'll give you a shout for dinner!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Threats of furloughs always accompany Union organizing drives or Union contract negotiations. Its a standard tactic.

Don't let it sway you.

 

[Tired in KTol]

Tired in Ktol.... GOOD TO SEE YOU AROUND HERE. If I ever make it off this crashpad couch and down to your kneck of the woods, I'll give you a shout for dinner!

Anytime:beer:

 

[elag777]

Threats of furloughs always accompany Union organizing drives or Union contract negotiations. Its a standard tactic.

Don't let it sway you.

I understand the "tactics" of contract talks and the inferance of furloughs etc. I do remember the company saying it would stop changes to work rules a few months ago and use one of the new working groups to bring solutions to both sides. As this moves fwd there will be a cascade effect among the other working groups, and soon we will be just like all the other airlines with two left feet at the dance. Unable to react quickly to market conditions because a LOA is needed. Do I think this will happen eventually? yes but the timing here is the worst possible. Respecting the arguements of both opinions requires education into exactly what B6 pilots have now with the PEA. There is more protection in there than you may think. The PVC report showed that. Wait but that was only lip service right??
You can be sure there will be displacements and or furloughs if this passes, my $00.02
Go ahaead tell me that I don't understand the "brotherhood" (sisters too!) :erm:

 

[ualdriver]

You have to admire the guys/gals at the bottom of the JB list who think voting a union in might cause them to be furloughed, but still are voting for representation. Those are the types of people JBPA should be tapping for leadership positions.

 

[elag777]

You have to admire the guys/gals at the bottom of the JB list who think voting a union in might cause them to be furloughed, but still are voting for representation. Those are the types of people JBPA should be tapping for leadership positions.

You have to question the Guys/Gals at the top of the list who would like to fly higher monthly bid divisors at the expense of people being unemployed, you should understand that right?

 

[ualdriver]

You have to question the Guys/Gals at the top of the list who would like to fly higher monthly bid divisors at the expense of people being unemployed, you should understand that right?

I'm not sure what the point of your post is, nor if it should even be directed at me. My post was a general statement that happened to be below your last post.

If you're pissed because guys at the top of the list are flying overtime at the risk of guys at the bottom of the list being furloughed because of this increased "productivity," you have my sympathies. We have guys doing that at my airline, too, and we actually have guys on the street. It's pathetic.

 

[AKAAB]

...<snip> yes but the timing here is the worst possible. Respecting the arguements of both opinions requires education into exactly what B6 pilots have now with the PEA. There is more protection in there than you may think. The PVC report showed that. Wait but that was only lip service right??

When is the timing right? Do you buy homeowners insurance when you smell smoke or do you plan ahead? It's time for JetBlue pilots to plan ahead to be ready for the next "crisis" and not wait until the last minute. Organization is inevitable, but the relationship with management is strictly up to the JB leadership.

The PVC report? Are you talking about the lawyer JB paid to review the new agreement language and offer his blessing? The protections you refer to are better than we had, but there is a lack of precedent when it comes to 2000 individual agreements being merged with a pilot group with a CBA. Without a pertinent precedent to refer to, his analysis is nothing more than an educated guess on what the courts will rule. With a CBA, the law is clear about integration. That's enough of an career insurance policy for me.

 

[linepilot]

As I recall, the timing wasn't right three years ago either.

 

[J32driver]

Here is a thought!!!!

Why not give this thing a chance? If we are wrong... and JBPA steps on their cranks and screws this up royally.... then start the campaign to vote them out 3 years from now.

 

[Splert]

Respecting the arguements of both opinions requires education into exactly what B6 pilots have now with the PEA. There is more protection in there than you may think.

Let's start with Profit Sharing.

1) What "protection" does the PEA provide for the continued granting of the so called "guaranteed 5% profit sharing"?