I've discovered Netjets 10 year plan!

[t-bone]

Again, anyone want to post real numbers and not just, "I sorta think it takes X amount of time"? I used a real plane with today's real winds.

CL30
0200z etd today
BOS-PBI
10 pax, 2000#s
2+45 time enroute, 1114 miles using AR19

5623#s fuel burn.

You may burn less fuel, but we get more Atlantic Bucks! ;-)

 

[glasspilot]

There it is. I used AR-19 too.

50 min faster and 523 gallons more. Also a much bigger plane not in our class so you carried 10 pax in a 40 million dollar plane compared to my 8 pax max 7 million dollar plane.

My point is I would never compare a Piaggio to a CL-30, but 50 min longer on a BOS to PBI flight costing $4,204 less just in gas (yup, called signature and used today's Jet A price) ain't too shabby.

2:45, 3:35

...who'd guess that's the difference between a top of the line large cabin Jet and my Piaggio?



I've made my point. We can go back to NetJets 10 year plan. Sorry for the hijack but let me just say I think I'd look hot in drag!

 

[NoJoy]

CL30
0200z etd today
BOS-PBI
10 pax, 2000#s
2+45 time enroute, 1114 miles using AR19

5623#s fuel burn.

You may burn less fuel, but we get more Atlantic Bucks! ;-)

In the end, its all about the Altantic Bucks! I love the west coast.

 

[hangarrat]

In the end, its all about the Altantic Bucks! I love the west coast.

Uh... You got a point there!

 

[sshrae]

ahh words of a man who is on top.. Try not to gloat too much, if you've been around any length of time you would know that all good things come to an end. Lemme know when you're pushing 30+ through class a month...Sorry though I couldn't afford the job.. My mortgage/Utilities is more than SIC's take home....


Could not agree more. I think most of the avantair people gloating have relatively little experience, I have run into a few older guys over there who are not impressed. But hey, whatever makes them happy. For the record I fly a sovereign part 91, have not done that flight for a while but you have us beat with the fuel burn and thats about it. I also fly a CJ2,3, and 4. I think those numbers would be fairly closer in that. Avantair pays crap wages (if the ones on apc are correct), that is one way they are so cheap for owners. You get what you pay for in the end.

 

[glasspilot]

So you've decided my pay is crap. Nice...stay classy.

NetJets 10 year plan anyone?

 

[FLYLOW22]

I just threw in a flight plan for 4 pax using today's winds from BOS to PBI with a 1200 departure flying the Atlantic Route.

Total time: 3:35 with a 10 kt avg headwind
Burn: 2,087

I used an alternate of FLL with a 220 lbs burn.

All of this fits on a P180 and would be a legal flight.

That's cute.

 

[sshrae]

So you've decided my pay is crap. Nice...stay classy.

NetJets 10 year plan anyone?

I will stay classy, and I am from San Diego

 

[BentOver]

Ok , I'll bite too....Citation X......

If ya must know I've done LA-NY with a strong tailwind in the same time it is taking you to go from BOS-PBI....I think my best was maybe 3:30 or maybe a little more.....

The plane climbs at .85, it passes everyone else in the climbout alone... 51,000 ft. Routinely flew in the mid-40's.. I flew the CRJ for 5 years, at around FL300 and routinely had to deviate around weather.... I can coun't on one hand the number of times I had to ask for a vector at FL450...

But that was then, now I am also flying low and slower. Ain't no thing, but don't get you're painties in a bunch if someone calls your plane a little turboprop or slow... It's not that big a deal..

Avantair has a leg up on Netjets at the moment,and that's only in employment. Netjets is still doing 2500 owner flights a week. I wouldn't say they've shrunk to nothing.....YET!:beer:

 

[NJAowner]

The largest is not always the best. McDonald's serves more meals per day than any other restaurant. And as much as I love a Big Mac, there is better food on the planet.

Even on the luxury side, Rolex sells more watches than anyone, but they are not the best (excellent watches yes they are, not not the finest).

 

[glasspilot]

Condensed mini-thread.

Can the aircraft (Piaggio) do NYC-South Florida? If so, that's a big market and certainly more than 2 hours. I think most would rather be in it than an ultra or bj as its larger.

I just threw in a flight plan for 4 pax using today's winds from BOS to PBI with a 1200 departure flying the Atlantic Route.

Total time: 3:35 with a 10 kt avg headwind
Burn: 2,087

That's a 2 hr flight in a jet.

Avantair pays crap wages. You get what you pay for in the end.

Ok , I'll bite too....Citation X......

If ya must know I've done LA-NY with a strong tailwind in the same time it is taking you to go from BOS-PBI....I think my best was maybe 3:30 or maybe a little more.....

Gotta love FI. Guys asks a question, another answers it and then all the pricks start getting whipped out stating the speed isn't fast enough or my plane's better.

You guys realize you were just using your Citation X to beat up on a Piaggio. I confirm my plane makes it NY to South Florida (and more) and in comes how your plane does it in "less than 2". Well, that was a lie, it doesn't.

"oh, well. I've done LA - NY in 3 hrs with a tail wind..."

That's nice too. My trip was with a head wind and I stated that and WHO CARES?? You're comparing a C-X to a P180!!! Nobody does that.

Put your little pricks back in your pants relax. You're still faster and better paid and better looking and the women like you better cause you're cooler.

There, feel better now?

 

[charley varrick]

The largest is not always the best. McDonald's serves more meals per day than any other restaurant. And as much as I love a Big Mac, there is better food on the planet.

Even on the luxury side, Rolex sells more watches than anyone, but they are not the best (excellent watches yes they are, not not the finest).

Does this mean you are changing your FI username?

 

[BentOver]

You're still faster and better paid and better looking and the women like you better cause you're cooler.

That's been our point the whole time

BTW it was one of your guys that asked to prove it and with what plane.. So I did.. If you want another comparison, I used to do NYC- PBI in a Beechjet at FL410 with 4-6 passengers in under around 2.5 hrs... Couldn't tell ya the fuel burn. It's been over 5 years. But I know it was less than the X and not much more than the P180....

You are one of the biggest NJA bashers on this board, you do understand that right?

 

[OPECJet]

You guys are spending way too much time on a sword contest and I'm spending way too much time reading it.....

Those of you still on the line who think that NJA isn't in trouble should take a step back and check the scenery. Believe less of what you're hearing from Useless and more of what you're ignoring from current and potential owners who already learned that NJA offers a product at a 30% premium over the competition with ZERO value added. Unless that changes I'd keep my logbook up to date.

 

[sshrae]

somebody get glass a tissue, struck a nerve. just flew a cj2 to dallas from san diego. took 2:40 min at fl450 burned 2600 pounds at 390 kts. a cj2 costs much less per hour than a piaggio and is a super nice cabin. thats the 2, the 3&4 perform much better.

 

[sshrae]

You guys are spending way too much time on a sword contest and I'm spending way too much time reading it.....

Those of you still on the line who think that NJA isn't in trouble should take a step back and check the scenery. Believe less of what you're hearing from Useless and more of what you're ignoring from current and potential owners who already learned that NJA offers a product at a 30% premium over the competition with ZERO value added. Unless that changes I'd keep my logbook up to date.

The fractional industry as a whole I think is unstable. If I was still in the fracs though nja would be the place. One fatal crash at avantair or pretty much any of the others and its over. Always keep the logbook up, you never know what could happen or where you end up.

 

[glasspilot]

You are one of the biggest NJA bashers on this board, you do understand that right?

if I'm the biggest NJA basher then NJ is in great shape. I don't think I've ever said a negative word about NetJets...ever.

Even sitting here thinking about it I can't think of any time I was ever upset at any NJ pilot. Just because I cheer for my company doesn't mean I hate another.

 

[BentOver]

if I'm the biggest NJA basher then NJ is in great shape. I don't think I've ever said a negative word about NetJets...ever.I don't recall one positive post you've ever made about Netjets.. Anytime there is a Netjets thread you seem to be on it....

Even sitting here thinking about it I can't think of any time I was ever upset at any NJ pilot. Just because I cheer for my company doesn't mean I hate another.ditto, in fact I have never met a Avantair pilot, never seen one of your planes, and never applied to your company.. Like I said, I have no negative feelings towards your company. However, just because you all happen to be holding your own in terms of employment vs. Netjets. It is only during this recent time period. Maybe if you weren't on every Netjets thread it would be a different story. We get it, the P180 is a great turbo prop compared to other turbo props. Avaintair has been growing, by growing I mean at a slow pace. But I caution you there is nothing to brag about when a guy like myself cannot and is unable to apply there for the simple reason that I'd be underwater every single month. And I live well within my means.... There is absolutely nothing to brag about. [/QUOTE]

...moving along now

 

[hangarrat]

*****Avantair has been growing, by growing I mean at a slow pace.*****

Avantair is 8 years old...

Notes From the article excerpt i post below:

NJA Roots date back to 1964 and in 1966 there were 87 clients.

Santulli bought in back in '84 and in '86 he is credited as having developed the interchange agreement, the basis of all fractional models. (genius thinking from him and his team - my hat is off to them)

In 1998 they had 1000 clients (that's 34 years to grow its first 1000 clients)

Here is the excerpt that tells the fascinating history:

Ride-Sharing With the Rich
How fractional jet owners get out of flying coach.
By David Freed
Air & Space Magazine, August 01, 2011
...

NetJets traces its Ohio roots to 1964, when U.S. Air Force Brigadier General Olbert Fearing Lassiter, who had retired in Columbus, came up with the idea of selling chartered jet transportation to civilians, affording them the same kind of swift, luxurious air service to which Lassiter had become accustomed while a flag officer. He secured financing, acquired some Learjets and Dassault Falcons, hired mostly former Strategic Air Command pilots, and assembled a high-profile corporate board of directors that included, among others, actor Jimmy Stewart, himself a former bomber pilot and one-star Air Force Reserve general. Thus was NetJets’ predecessor, Executive Jet Airways, born.

Within 17 months, according to a June 1966 Time magazine story, EJA (later Executive Jet Aviation) had 87 clients and was earning nearly $3 million a year. IBM and Xerox executives regularly chartered the company’s aircraft. So did Playboy founder Hugh Hefner.

Paul Tibbets, pilot of the Enola Gay, the Boeing B-29 that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, took over as EJA president in 1976. Before the end of the decade, the company’s client list had nearly tripled.

Wall Street investment banker Richard Santulli saw plenty of room for growth. In 1986, two years after acquiring EJA, Santulli was credited with conceiving what remains today the secret sauce of fractional jet ownership: All owners sign a "master interchange" agreement, allowing each to use any of the others’ jets, and vice versa. No longer wedded to one airplane—which can pose problems when you’ve got a big investor meeting in San Francisco on the same day your co-owner wants to fly his kids to Disney World—the fractional owner under Santulli’s model suddenly had at his disposal an entire harem of airplanes.

"That’s when everything took off like crazy," says NetJets’ president Noe.

By 1998, the list of fractional owners had grown to more than 1,000. One owner, Berkshire Hathaway chairman Warren Buffett, liked the arrangement so much he bought the company. Three years later, Executive Jet changed its name to NetJets, in part, says Noe, to distance itself from negative news reports that used the phrase "executive jet" anytime a private business aircraft was involved in a mishap.

Amid the Great Recession, NetJets and its competitors have struggled. As business travel in general dropped, so did fractional jet ownership. NetJets was forced to cut staff, furlough 495 pilots, and shift its headquarters from New Jersey back to Ohio. Santulli stepped down in 2009 and was replaced by one of Buffett’s top lieutenants, David Sokol, who resigned in March from Berkshire Hathaway and as NetJets’ chief executive officer under suspicion of ethics violations in stock trading. NetJets’ new CEO is Jordan Hansell.

The company these days averages 330 flights a day, up slightly from 2010, but still down from a high of approximately 400 three years ago, says Henneberry.

...

 

[hangarrat]

*****But I caution you there is nothing to brag about when a guy like myself cannot and is unable to apply there for the simple reason that I'd be underwater every single month. And I live well within my means.... There is absolutely nothing to brag about. [/[/COLOR]QUOTE]
*****
...moving along now

Didn't NJA pay $25K to all first year FO's in the light jet catagory all the way up to the 2005 contract. Thats over twenty years after Santulli got there.

Avantair has been running 8 years.

Now, Can we stop making this thread about Avantair?

The market is taking a dive again today... I am concerned about all of our jobs.