Is the worst over at Flexjet?

[Outta Here]

Not be negative and pessimistic but not many so called analysts saw any of this coming and I don't expect them to know when the market is "Bottomed Out." Lets see what the Fall brings though I am not looking forward to it because I thinks its going to be a bloodbath! I think the ride has only just began.

 

[FalconPilot69]

I call BS here....

I am sorry, if you can't pass the ride, you don't deserve the job, ie. Colgan Air. The training center has better things to do than just bust people for the sake of doing so. Those who think this are just plain ignorant to what goes on in the school house. Everyone I have ever dealt with has been nothing but stand up individuals who hold me to the same standards as the guy next to me. Quite frankly, I don't want to fly with anyone who can't pass the ride. All they are doing is putting my lively hood and yours at risk.

They are all just a training board away from being fired.

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

I am sorry, if you can't pass the ride, you don't deserve the job, ie. Colgan Air. The training center has better things to do than just bust people for the sake of doing so. Those who think this are just plain ignorant to what goes on in the school house. Everyone I have ever dealt with has been nothing but stand up individuals who hold me to the same standards as the guy next to me. Quite frankly, I don't want to fly with anyone who can't pass the ride. All they are doing is putting my lively hood and yours at risk.

If this was simply about passing or failing a check ride than I agree with everything that you said in your post. The training board is being used as a weapon against people who don't "fall in line" or are "troublemakers." Atleast the guys at netjets had the intenstinel fortitude to protect their jobs. There are capts/first officers at flex that are scared $hitless and they are answering their phone in the rest time(like 2 am) amongst other things. A pilot shouldn't have worry about retribution in training if they bring up grievances about the company. You completely ignored the rest of my post the bottom line is those guys don't have any job security because they believed management would take care of them.

 

[FalconPilot69]

OK, here is the rest of your post. I still stand by what I said before. The TRB is just that, a training review board, consisting of the instructor who did the ride, the supervisor of training, the ACP and a regular line pilot. They review the information provided from not only the recently failed ride but also their past training history and discuss the outcome with the pilot there at the TRB. From there, the pilot tells the TRB how much time they need to be ready. Then the TRB makes their recommendation to DG. There have been times when the TRB said no to retrain and DG said yes. I have never heard of him going the other way. Also keep in mind that there is no regulatory requirement for Flex to give us a warm up then the check. The company has chosen to do this.

While it is true we do not have "protection," the training center is not the long arm of the law for management. That is where I call BS.

Those seniors guys don't even have job security. They are all just a training board away from being fired.

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

Also keep in mind that there is no regulatory requirement for Flex to give us a warm up then the check. The company has chosen to do this.

That's the least they can do considering what they have taken away and what you guys don't have.

 

[bunman45]

I have never had any trouble with the training department. I've never felt like anybody was out to get me or trying to help management get rid of people. People that fail rides and get fired are usually people that have had training issues in the past.

 

[netjetwife]

Is there an agreed upon, written list of rules and procedures that Flex must follow when training questions arise so that each pilot can be assured of fair and equal treatment? If so, would one of the Flex pilots please share them with your fellow FI members so those interested could learn more about Flex. If not, would the Flex pilots prefer to have a system of due process spelled out?

Have the Flex pilots seen, or heard of, the training section in the NJ pilots' CBA? My husband is especially pleased with how it turned out. He tells me that it's very fair and one of the most pilot-friendly out there. If the Flex pilots have some type of self-help representation, council of peers, etc, you guys could check it out for possible suggestions.

 

[doh]

There is a section in the manual dealing with failed check rides. There are two reasons I'm not going to post it here. One, it's a bad idea to post proprietary info on a public board like this. Two, it's too much typing. I will say that the stuff in there is about the same as at other places I've flown. I will also say you are best off showing up ready for the ride, but that is also the same everywhere.

 

[jonjuan]

I will also say you are best off showing up ready for the ride, but that is also the same everywhere.

LOL-when's the last time Flight Safety failed anyone whose check cleared?

 

[brokeflyer]

LOL-when's the last time Flight Safety failed anyone whose check cleared?

only if the FAA is riding.....then they "hold" the check until the next day.

 

[cherry20's]

only if the FAA is riding.....then they "hold" the check until the next day.

First hand knowledge I take it broke... :laugh:

 

[FalconPilot69]

Flex pilots are not paying for their training, therefore they don't fall under the same weak rules. Our training department looks at every guy/gal coming in with the same attitude. If you can't pass the ride, you don't belong. They won't put their jobs and family at risk just like all of us here won't. That is the difference. You pass a guy at FSI and you don't fear reprisal. You bust a guy at FSI, and that might very well happen.

LOL-when's the last time Flight Safety failed anyone whose check cleared?

 

[brokeflyer]

First hand knowledge I take it broke... :laugh:

no, but when i was an examiner that's what I seen...lol...nearly perfect checkrides...

it was similar to seeing planes only being written up on the last leg back to home base....

 

[ArtVandalay]

The bottom line on the training department at Flexjet is that way too many people have lost their jobs due to failed checkrides and, not once has anyone considered it a training department problem. Since my time here, I can recall quite a few firings from checkrides yet, I have never heard of a failure that eventually resulted in a subsequent pass. This should raise flags that our training dept needs to be looked at very thoroughly but, that will never happen until lawyers or the FAA gets involved.

 

[netjetwife]

Art, thanks for the shared insight. Training is an issue that reaches across all the fracs. Lack of standardization (including in-house programs) is a problem that NJASAP has worked w/NJA on, going back to their 1108 days. Clear, evenly applied rules and due process when questions arise are basic rights that all frac pilots deserve. Contrary to what some posters believe, fair-minded managers welcome the input pilots bring to the training discussion because they realize that pilots have a vested interest in the final product and support improvements.

I hope those pilots who have seen questionable firings will consider standing together to insist on fair treatment for all in their group. When managers are free to ruin a pilot's career, without any oversight, there's no reason to think their attitude will be confined to training alone. Indeed, it seems to be evident in the arbitrary 2 yr recall given to furloughed pilots at Flex when the industry standard is unlimited. I think you guys deserve parity. NJW