IS SWAPA the "New" USAPA???? Arrogance abound!

[General Lee]

Trying to stir the pot a little there General?


SLC

Of course I am trying to stir the pot, that is what I do. But, I also think this is soooo one sided. Really, it is ridiculous, and the F9 pilots do NOT deserve a staple for what their mangement has done to them. That is key. Now, I don't think they should be thrown in relative seniority, but something inbetween, something that gives them SOME CREDIT for longevity. Now the Lynx guys, you can staple them and give everyone some protection. Even they would like that....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They do their pilots no good when they lose credibility. If they end up in arbitration and their position is to staple an A320/19 pilot group to the bottom of a 737 pilot group they will have their collective arses handed to them. I guess the next stunt would then be to vote SWAPA off the property in a desperate attempt to avoid implementing the integrated seniority list.

This merger could bring growth opportunities to SWA, which translates into more upward mobility for SWA first officers.

FDJ, I am not talking about a staple, I am talking about the fact that they are playing hard ball with management. I would assume that their MEC knows that a staple is just plain BS. It is all part of the company pressuring them in to an 11 hr deal and SWAPA waiting until they are in the 11th hour and 59th minute and 45 seconds to make sure they are getting the best deal. Management came to them and asked to take a major clause out of the offer. I think that SWAPA should get something in return for that. IMHO that is what they are doing.

 

[trip]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Every now and then GL says something sensible! I couldn't agree more.

 

[shagadelic]

General,
Let me get this straight, if DALPA were in SWAPAs shoes, you are saying you would gladly merge them in to Captain spots? Somehow I think not... although they wouldn't get near the pay bump becoming Delta Captains that they would at SWA. I guess it wouldn't be such a windfall after all.

 

[kc81900]

Any integration on the F9 pilots would be a windfall. They would obtain pay and seniority benefits while SWA pilots gain nothing and actually lose ground.

F9 Fo's going to SWA pay rates and F9 captains getting pay protections is a benefit for them ( F9) a staple to our list is a loss for F9. They gain in one area and lose in another. Fair and equitable thats to be debated i for one think that is fair and equitable.

What would the F9 pilots get under republic merger??? A319/20 flying at RJ pay rates. List integration at what formula?? More F9 losses under that scenario than with WN.

 

[Porch]

You SWA pilots are really showing your arrogant side. I guess the F9 pilots should carry your bags and shine your shoes while they're at it - but they will be pay protected so I guess that's OK...[/URL]

Where's the shoe shine wax & my gloves? I'd rather do that than work for republic... at least I'll be able to afford to pay my mortgage and feed my family.

 

[johnsonrod]

Where's the shoe shine wax & my gloves? I'd rather do that than work for republic... at least I'll be able to afford to pay my mortgage and feed my family.

I doubt you ever expected to get rich as a pilot (and if you did you were misguided). If you want to just focus on money leave aviation and go to Law School....

 

[flyingitalian]

Make sure you know that this offer is not one sided. F9 was offered base protection in DEN (airbus now and all new 737 fo slots) FOREVER. They would be on the bottom of the mastoer seniority list, but pay protected to pre-concessionary rates and given credit for their longevity for vacation and pay rates. The top F9 pilot would get a raise, on the bottom of the list as a captain on the 320 in DEN and even as an FO on the 737. Remember your paycheck is not just your hourly rate. We can easily fly 100 trips a month without really breaking a sweat. What was the top paying F9 captain W2 last year? Im willing to bet he would make more money here right out of the shoot.

And General, are you kidding me? What if Delta bought F9, what would your tune be then?

 

[Porch]

I doubt you ever expected to get rich as a pilot (and if you did you were misguided). If you want to just focus on money leave aviation and go to Law School....

I'm already rich bro, I've made my $$ elsewhere... its not the money to me, but it is to many in the F9 group. How about this: If you want to be a rich pilot, go work for WN. If you prefer to stay broke, toss out your resume and press on with Rep. I prefer to work for a professional carrier and cushion my nest egg... I've worked for regionals and don't want to do it again. Thanks for your advice, in advance.

 

[shagadelic]

I doubt you ever expected to get rich as a pilot (and if you did you were misguided). If you want to just focus on money leave aviation and go to Law School....

Actually when I was in high school I read a career book that showed how much major airline pilots made, how much they worked, and what they did. I thought, man that would be cool to fly jets and earn that kind of coin. I was comparing that to a doctor, and thought the doctor route was longer, I would work harder with longer hours, and maybe not have the quality of life. I saw myself making the bucks then, and did what I needed to to make it happen. My life is not flying jets, it's doing things with my family and enjoying my time off. This career enables me to do that, and as an added benefit, it's not a half bad way to earn a living.

I certainly wouldn't have done it for less, and would have chosen another career if I didn't reasonably expect to make what I had researched.

Though it's not politically correct, if you aren't factoring what you will make when you are figuring out what you want to do in life, you may end up with some big regrets later in life when you discover that your "passion", in the end, is just a job.

 

[General Lee]

General,
Let me get this straight, if DALPA were in SWAPAs shoes, you are saying you would gladly merge them in to Captain spots? Somehow I think not... although they wouldn't get near the pay bump becoming Delta Captains that they would at SWA. I guess it wouldn't be such a windfall after all.

Nope. I actually suggested to GUP Driver that we start at the half way point (top half are Captains) and then go with a ratio DOWNWARDs. Maybe 1 for 5---whatever. It would give the senior F9 guys credit for their own longevity, and eventually they would be Captains again soon. You don't want to "poop" on guys that you will be sharing the crewroom or cockpits with. That is what a staple seems like.

And, again you are acting unbelievably cocky. Guess what sport? Your pay rates are THANKS TO US at DL. We brought your rates up with our own pay rate jump in 2000. Just because our management decided to run our company into BK doesn't mean it was our fault at all. You should know that---but instead you have a cocky attitude---typical of most of you guys. (not all) You get really mad when people don't want to do what you do, which is multiple leg days with 25 minute turns, on the same plane, forever..... sounds just great, and incredibly boring. But hey, keep telling yourself that each time you land in ELP.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[firstthird]

You get really mad when people don't want to do what you do, which is multiple leg days with 25 minute turns, on the same plane, forever..... sounds just great, and incredibly boring. But hey, keep telling yourself that each time you land in ELP.

seems like you are the one that has a problem with what we do, whatever. maybe one day we'll get some big planes and fly international, then we can hang out with you in Nairobi.

 

[General Lee]

Make sure you know that this offer is not one sided. F9 was offered base protection in DEN (airbus now and all new 737 fo slots) FOREVER. They would be on the bottom of the mastoer seniority list, but pay protected to pre-concessionary rates and given credit for their longevity for vacation and pay rates. The top F9 pilot would get a raise, on the bottom of the list as a captain on the 320 in DEN and even as an FO on the 737. Remember your paycheck is not just your hourly rate. We can easily fly 100 trips a month without really breaking a sweat. What was the top paying F9 captain W2 last year? Im willing to bet he would make more money here right out of the shoot.

And General, are you kidding me? What if Delta bought F9, what would your tune be then?

If Delta bought F9 (or maybe Alaska coming up here), I would still allow it to be fair. Eventually you are going to run into incredible animosity, which would mean constant complaining. Since F9 is not going to liquidate, you can't give them the worst case scenario---which is a staple. You can't, unless you are a bunch of cocky jackholes. Our merger with NWA wasn't perfect, but it was done fairly with 3 neutrals (arbitrators), and they came up with a solution. The NWA guys got 30% raises immediately (more when they move from the DC9 to the 757/767), got better work rules, and kept their frozen pensions (what we don't have). So, they may have taken a small hit on the SLI, but they did better in every other category. That is the way it goes, but in the end we all can agree that not everyone got what they wanted, which means it was somewhat fair, and we can all wave at eachother as we taxi by. I can't even wave at you guys because you guys are taxiing so fast......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

seems like you are the one that has a problem with what we do, whatever. maybe one day we'll get some big planes and fly international, then we can hang out with you in Nairobi.

You mean Sydney? How about Rome? I am too senior to have to go to Nairobi (actually we don't fly there yet). You guys will have to get some INTL experience first before you "dream" of going anywhere near Nairobi. How about Canada first? Can you convince your management that you are good enough? How about Mexico? They are actually pretty nice down there most of the time. I bet you could do it. Let the F9 guys show you how, fairly.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Any integration on the F9 pilots would be a windfall. They would obtain pay and seniority benefits while SWA pilots gain nothing and actually lose ground.

F9 Fo's going to SWA pay rates and F9 captains getting pay protections is a benefit for them ( F9) a staple to our list is a loss for F9. They gain in one area and lose in another. Fair and equitable thats to be debated i for one think that is fair and equitable.

What would the F9 pilots get under republic merger??? A319/20 flying at RJ pay rates. List integration at what formula?? More F9 losses under that scenario than with WN.

So, your company would not get a windfall for routes/gates (ATL), slots (DCA and more LGA), and dominance at DEN? It's all about you, and not about your company being stronger in the future...... I am glad you are not an arbitrator. Why again would Gary Kelly offer $60 million more than Republic for the same deal? Hmmmm, maybe he knows something you don't. I kinda hope Republic wins the auction, makes F9 stronger (they do have the money), and then repeatedly beats you over the head in DEN. The finger will always be pointed back at YOU.


Bye Bye--General Lee