IS SWAPA the "New" USAPA???? Arrogance abound!

[General Lee]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Really?

I personally like how they are protecting their own.

Currently it is SWAPA 2 Company 0.

 

[General Lee]

Really?

I personally like how they are protecting their own.

Currently it is SWAPA 2 Company 0.

So, why didn't we go for a staple for the NWA guys? Not really the same, but I guess you would have wanted that? I know F9 isn't the same size company as SWA, nor has the financials, but they do give SWA something. If you demand a staple, then that shows complete arrogance. I know SWA did that with Morris Air, which was a much younger company without the history. The fact is you should show some respect, or get none in return. It doesn't mean you have to give away the World, but you should show some flexibility. If everyone is going to gain, then allow it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[firstthird]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

so, how much credit do you guys give NWA because you were all 'artificially senior' due to all your early buyouts?

you say I don't know what I'm talking about, hey, you're correct. I say you don't know what you're talking about WRT WN/F9.

how different were your pay scales NWA/DAL before DAL got the pre-agreement boost to put you much higher than you were? were your FOs making as much as their captains? had one of your carriers been making money for 37 years while one is in bankruptcy and UNABLE to get exit financing?

it is called career expectations. I'm happy that SWAPA is acting to protect ALL SWA pilots and not just the senior ones.

 

[FDJ2]

Really?

I personally like how they are protecting their own.

Currently it is SWAPA 2 Company 0.

They do their pilots no good when they lose credibility. If they end up in arbitration and their position is to staple an A320/19 pilot group to the bottom of a 737 pilot group they will have their collective arses handed to them. I guess the next stunt would then be to vote SWAPA off the property in a desperate attempt to avoid implementing the integrated seniority list.

This merger could bring growth opportunities to SWA, which translates into more upward mobility for SWA first officers.

 

[Red Baron]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

What I am reading, the auction goes through August 17th. Thanks for your advice and opinions, but we will let the parties involved work it out. We will see what happens. SWAPA works for us.




UPDATE 2-Southwest, Frontier pilots at impasse- union

Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:02pm EDT


* Southwest union ready to bargain further
* Union to put Frontier pilots at bottom of seniority list
* Southwest seeking extension in bankruptcy court-union (Recasts; Adds comment from SWAPA president, company spokesman)
NEW YORK, Aug 13 (Reuters) - Seniority was a major sticking point during labor talks between pilots for Southwest Airlines (LUV.N) and Frontier Airlines Holdings Inc (FRNTQ.PK) Wednesday night, the head of Southwest's union said on Thursday.
The talks hit an impasse at 11:15 p.m. CT last night in Dallas and union officials are prepared to resume talks today and through the weekend if necessary, said Carl Kuwitzky, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association.
Southwest's union offered to place Frontier's 700 pilots at the bottom of their pilot seniority master list.
"We're not through bargaining," he said.
In an e-mail sent to pilots last night, the union said Southwest will petition the bankruptcy court Thursday for an extension on its final bid with Frontier. Kuwitzky said labor issues were not the only reason for the company's request.
An auction for Frontier in bankruptcy court is slated for Thursday. Earlier this week, Southwest submitted a $170 million offer for the bankrupt carrier, in an effort to trump a rival bid by Republic Airways Holdings Inc (RJET.O) for $108.75 million. [ID:N10540482]
"We can confirm that SWA is still a participant in the process," Southwest spokesmen Brad Hawkins said in an e-mail. "The process allows for the auction to continue through August 17, if needed."
The head of the Frontier Airline Pilots' Association said he was not available to comment.
"We think we've offered a very fair proposal that protects their jobs first and foremost, their pay and domicile rights," Kuwitzky said. "I think they have a much brighter future with Southwest than they do under Republic."
Kuwitzky also said SWAPA has started talks with pilots with Frontier's Lynx Aviation unit and said his union would look to strike a similar deal with them.
A Frontier acquisition would help Southwest boost its presence in the U.S. and allow it to explore international routes. Still, during a conference call with reporters this week, Southwest executives said they did not want to proceed with the merger without employee support.
(Reporting by Deepa Seetharaman; Editing by Derek Caney)

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Trying to stir the pot a little there General?


SLC

 

[johnsonrod]

You SWA pilots are really showing your arrogant side. I guess the F9 pilots should carry your bags and shine your shoes while they're at it - but they will be pay protected so I guess that's OK...

Perhaps all you former Top Gun pilots should watch this video:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8afa50b440/iceman-the-later-years-from-nino

 

[FDJ2]

Southwest's union offered to place Frontier's 700 pilots at the bottom of their pilot seniority master list.
"We're not through bargaining," he said.

That's the understatement of the year. Offer them a staple and then state that you're not done bargaining.

Pushing the auction back to get an agreement shows how interested SWA is in this transaction. Ultimately they'll probably press forward with or without the pilots coming to an agrement.

Perhaps it's best for all involved to lock in some contractual gains with a JCBA and a seniority integration process with a date certain integrated list by either DCC or SOC.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Thanks for the opinion, General...but like the poster ahead said, SWAPA works for me...and I think we just step back and let our M&A Committee do their job...and for the record, I think our SWAPA M&A Comitee is doing a wonderful job working hard to protect the interests of the SWAPA Pilots first.

Just relax and withold comments until this is all over....and it ain't over yet.