IS SWAPA the "New" USAPA???? Arrogance abound!

[Tripower455]

Top to bottom SLI is just as unfair as stapling the F9 guys. Looks like SWAPA didn't try too hard to make this happen.

Works for us!

 

[General Lee]

GL,

International is overrated. My dad did it for 21 years at Pan Am, then went domestic when he upgraded. He looked and felt better as well as losing a few lbs. He went back to international on the A310 and immediately started hating it. He ended up retiring off the 727 after getting exessed off the 'bus at DAL and, even though the pay wasn't as good, was much happier and healthier.....


I'll take my 12 day, 3 on 4 off, $200K+, no jet lag, commuter schedule over just about any other majors scheduling.......


Oh, and 13k posts on FI? No offense intended, but you really need a hobby. Get a Harley or something.... you'll be much happier....

It's nice to have a choice. You don't have a choice, infact your company doesn't think you can do it. (INTL flying) They would rather have Westjet or Volaris (a newcomer in Mexico too) do it. As far as your Dad goes, that is his story. Some guys like flying 1 leg to Europe or Asia, and then one leg back, or domestic stuff. That is fantastic for him, and sounds like he finished happy. Maybe he can tell you what it is like to have a choice, and to see the World. Go ask him. Also, be sure to tell him how you like LBB and AMA layovers, and hopefully he doesn't bust out laughing. He will then tell you about his "round the world trips" with the stews at the old Pan Am. I have heard some of those stories.... Go and tell him about that day you actually flew from Reno to LA, and then onto ELP, and then HOU after that, finally laying over in Tulsa! That was FANTASTIC. I like having a CHOICE. (on several things--routes, planes, etc)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL,

Adults are capable of disagreeing and use fact to build their arguments. Maybe you should try it sometime.

It is a FACT that our inflation indexed pay has been flat since 1978.

Thanks Dad. Anyway......most contracts are never given credit for that, rather they look at the highest paid for the same particular plane. You did that after we got our C2K raise. You cannot deny that, and if you do you are not an adult.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Speaking of 5 legs, tell you're mom I said hi.

My Dad said you called him. You gotta stop that, the judge said so.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

It is obvious that you:
- don't like SWA,
- don't understand contract negitiations,
- are naive to the airline biz.

I don't care what anyone else makes. I care about what our company can afford and still be profitable and grow. You get hung up on simple pay rates and you are doomed. TP455 has it right. It is about QOL. Less per hour and a more productive schedule equals better life and more usually money.

Chest,

I never said I disliked SWA. I like the airline overall, and I like your payrates and most of the stews. What I really enjoy is watching SWA guys get "miffed" when someone has the gall to not want to do what you do, or fly where you fly. You guys literally have a meltdown. It is hillarious to watch. In reality, you are well paid (due to your company's stablitiy) to fly old planes (half old, half new maybe) on a lot of legs per day (more than most) to marginal cities so you can drink the 1 2 3 rule. We all want pilots to make more, so we can eventually make more in better times too (your rates were thanks to us, ours were thanks to UAL initially, etc). The key again is that your trips, while productive, SUK. Nobody wants to do multiple legs days, with quick turns, and be tired at the end of a trip. Most of us did that in the Commuters or Regionals. You are paid a lot better though, but that type of flying will eventually bore the heck out of you. Can you imagine doing that for 20 or 30 years? You better.

As far as not understanding contract negotiations, it appears your own management didn't understand the bidding process or negotiations with F9. They got wupped by Republic and Bedford.

Again, I think you have a good airline situation, but it is not ideal. Southwest Captains were leaving for United pre-9-11. It may be better now, but the flying is similar, with a few more transcons. I just don't like 5 more stops before the end of my day. You may, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

The more you talk the more it becomes evident that you really have NO idea of what your saying. Talk about arrogance. Do some research first please...

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

El General,

Chest,

I never said I disliked SWA. I like the airline overall, and I like your payrates and most of the stews. What I really enjoy is watching SWA guys get "miffed" when someone has the gall to not want to do what you do, or fly where you fly. You guys literally have a meltdown. It is hillarious to watch. In reality, you are well paid (due to your company's stablitiy) to fly old planes (half old, half new maybe) on a lot of legs per day (more than most) to marginal cities so you can drink the 1 2 3 rule. We all want pilots to make more, so we can eventually make more in better times too (your rates were thanks to us, ours were thanks to UAL initially,WHICH WERE THANKS TO OUR NEW NWA BROTHERS etc). The key again is that your trips, while productive, SUK. Nobody wants to do multiple legs days, with quick turns, and be tired at the end of a trip. Most of us did that in the Commuters or Regionals. You are paid a lot better though, but that type of flying will eventually bore the heck out of you. Can you imagine doing that for 20 or 30 years? You better.

As far as not understanding contract negotiations, it appears your own management didn't understand the bidding process or negotiations with F9. They got wupped by Republic and Bedford.

Again, I think you have a good airline situation, but it is not ideal. Southwest Captains were leaving for United pre-9-11. It may be better now, but the flying is similar, with a few more transcons. I just don't like 5 more stops before the end of my day. You may, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

It's nice to have a choice. You don't have a choice, infact your company doesn't think you can do it. (INTL flying) They would rather have Westjet or Volaris (a newcomer in Mexico too) do it. As far as your Dad goes, that is his story. Some guys like flying 1 leg to Europe or Asia, and then one leg back, or domestic stuff. That is fantastic for him, and sounds like he finished happy. Maybe he can tell you what it is like to have a choice, and to see the World. Go ask him. Also, be sure to tell him how you like LBB and AMA layovers, and hopefully he doesn't bust out laughing. He will then tell you about his "round the world trips" with the stews at the old Pan Am. I have heard some of those stories.... Go and tell him about that day you actually flew from Reno to LA, and then onto ELP, and then HOU after that, finally laying over in Tulsa! That was FANTASTIC. I like having a CHOICE. (on several things--routes, planes, etc)


Bye Bye--General Lee

LOL. Whatever..... I HAD a choice! After 10 years of commuter flying, I chose SWA..... And while it might look like a commuter to some, I can assure you that the occasional 5 leg day and short layover is the ONLY similarity.

I would have liked to flown INTL for a few years to get it out of my system, but I can live with my choice. I had the opportunity to interview with UAL when I was in my 3rd month, and DAL when I was in my 3rd year at SWA (one of my dad's friends called and offered me the interview. He was a blueballer that went into the personel dept after retiring). I'll admit that I considered it, but thank God EVERY day that I didn't even go to either interview, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I would've been furloughed. Sounds like I made the wrong choice, right?

I don't work for fun, I work for money and time off, which SWA gives me plenty of.

You talk about being tired after a trip? I watched what an *** hole my dad became for 3 days after a Tokyo or other long trip, every time, and decided that it wasn't for me.

Today is a typical day for me, and I show at around 1400, fly 3 legs in a 6 hour duty day and will be home before midnight, including a 3 hour drive home. I'll also make over $1k for today (and it's not even a productive day). I'll also get up tomorrow and go do stuff with my wife and kids the same as if I'd been off for the last week. JUST like the commuter days, right?

I traveled the world when I was younger. If I want to do it again, I can.

My old man loves SWA. He would've loved to have the stability I've had in the 15 years I've been here, not to mention the far better schedules. Heck, I had a far better reserve schedule than he did at DAL when I was at TWE, and our schedules sucked......

Whatever........ As I said, go buy a Harley or some new tits for your wife and enjoy life outside of this forum. Berating other pilots that disagree with you is not a productive hobby.....

 

[General Lee]

LOL. Whatever..... I HAD a choice! After 10 years of commuter flying, I chose SWA..... And while it might look like a commuter to some, I can assure you that the occasional 5 leg day and short layover is the ONLY similarity.

I would have liked to flown INTL for a few years to get it out of my system, but I can live with my choice. I had the opportunity to interview with UAL when I was in my 3rd month, and DAL when I was in my 3rd year at SWA (one of my dad's friends called and offered me the interview. He was a blueballer that went into the personel dept after retiring). I'll admit that I considered it, but thank God EVERY day that I didn't even go to either interview, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I would've been furloughed. Sounds like I made the wrong choice, right?

I don't work for fun, I work for money and time off, which SWA gives me plenty of.

You talk about being tired after a trip? I watched what an *** hole my dad became for 3 days after a Tokyo or other long trip, every time, and decided that it wasn't for me.

Today is a typical day for me, and I show at around 1400, fly 3 legs in a 6 hour duty day and will be home before midnight, including a 3 hour drive home. I'll also make over $1k for today (and it's not even a productive day). I'll also get up tomorrow and go do stuff with my wife and kids the same as if I'd been off for the last week. JUST like the commuter days, right?

I traveled the world when I was younger. If I want to do it again, I can.

My old man loves SWA. He would've loved to have the stability I've had in the 15 years I've been here, not to mention the far better schedules. Heck, I had a far better reserve schedule than he did at DAL when I was at TWE, and our schedules sucked......

Whatever........ As I said, go buy a Harley or some new tits for your wife and enjoy life outside of this forum. Berating other pilots that disagree with you is not a productive hobby.....

Wow, you sound emotional. Easy there, fella. Maybe you need to "talk to somebody" about that who has a degree in that field.

Anyway, I am glad that you enjoy your job, but the fact is not everyone wants your type of flying, that ONLY has one choice. Maybe your Dad didn't have a choice either, and that made him mad. I am glad he likes Southwest too. That should make Thanksgiving dinners more fun.

As far as Southwest only having a few "5 leg days" or whatever, we ALL KNOW that is wrong. I think that is completely opposite of what it really is---a few trips have one or two leg days. That is not how your airline works. It probably depends on the base, but the guys I have talked to said 5 or 6 leg days are common. If you do intra TX stuff, you have multiple leg days. If you do SoCal stuff out of LAS or PHX, you do multiple leg days. I bet the same out of MDW or BWI. Overall, you do it, and the long legs are not the norm. If you do 1 day trips with 3 legs, you must be REAL senior. (although a 3 hour drive on each side doesn't sound fun--doing daily trips)

Again, I still like SWA, I just would not want to do what you do. I like the pay, no doubt, and having younger stews to banter with might be really fun too. But, your flying, and lack of choices in aircraft and INTL routes, just doesn't appeal to everyone, regarless of what you guys think. But, if you enjoy it, that is great. Everyone should enjoy going to work, and I do also. And, my wife looks great and we have a lot of fun together. Thanks for caring.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Wow, you sound emotional. Easy there, fella. Maybe you need to "talk to somebody" about that who has a degree in that field.

Says the guy with 13,000 posts on a wanking internet forum.... Pot, meet kettle.... Emotional I am not. Just refuting your ridiculous claims.

Anyway, I am glad that you enjoy your job, but the fact is not everyone wants your type of flying, that ONLY has one choice.

Agreed. It's not for everyone, but having seen the other side, I'll take this.

Maybe your Dad didn't have a choice either, and that made him mad.

He had the choice. He flew international for 21 years and then went domestic. He could never see doing 4 legs a day either, until he actually did it. There is no question that he preferred domestic after doing both.

I am glad he likes Southwest too. That should make Thanksgiving dinners more fun.

I'm glad ytou're glad. Well, actually I don't really g.a.s. Is that arrogant?

As far as Southwest only having a few "5 leg days" or whatever, we ALL KNOW that is wrong.

Really? How long have you worked at SWA? I don't remember the last time I did more than 4, and the average is more like 2-3. When bidding, I don't don't even look at the lines past pay and report time, so it's not a matter of avoiding them either.

I think that is completely opposite of what it really is---a few trips have one or two leg days.

See above.....

That is not how your airline works. It probably depends on the base, but the guys I have talked to said 5 or 6 leg days are common. If you do intra TX stuff, you have multiple leg days. If you do SoCal stuff out of LAS or PHX, you do multiple leg days. I bet the same out of MDW or BWI. Overall, you do it, and the long legs are not the norm.

Of course, we do mulitple leg days as the norm. 5-6 legs are not the "norm".

If you do 1 day trips with 3 legs, you must be REAL senior. (although a 3 hour drive on each side doesn't sound fun--doing daily trips)

I patently refuse to do turns due to the commute. I've done maybe 7 of them in 15 years. And I am not senior. In fact, I am on a 2 day right now that I traded a turn for. I normally do 3 days with the occasional 4 day for some extra $$.

Again, I still like SWA, I just would not want to do what you do.

Ditto.... Looks like we both made the right choice.

I like the pay, no doubt, and having younger stews to banter with might be really fun too.

Pay and time off is all I care about.

But, your flying, and lack of choices in aircraft and INTL routes, just doesn't appeal to everyone, regarless of what you guys think.

I never said it did appealed to everyone. You assert that we are somehow worse off because we don't do international, and somehow are jealous of of you. I simply refuted your assertion. Obviously, looking at our hiring pool and the many threads about it on here, I am not alone in my opinion that this is a great place to work.

But, if you enjoy it, that is great.

I never said I enjoyed it. If I won the lottery, I'd call in rich so fast it would make Herbs head spin. It's a JOB, albeit a good one, but it's still a JOB.

And, my wife looks great and we have a lot of fun together.

This begs the question.... why do you spend so much time on FI? This crap simply isn't that interesting.....

Thanks for caring.

LOL.......

 

[General Lee]

How do I know what your schedules are like? I have friends there, and they complain a lot, saying they are tired after their trips. How can you get such productive trips? Not all of them are two leg days. But, if you want to keep stating otherwise, go ahead.

And why do I have so many posts? I have been on this board for years, and I bring the computer along on many trips overseas. I have time to do this, and see the world. It's great.

Your Dad's trips sound tough. Some of our NWA trips to Asia are 11 day trips, and that doesn't sound great either. Our Delta trips (and most NWA trips coming up here) are a lot better. Our senior guys on the 777 do 3 day trips from ATL to NRT, worth 28 hours. Same for Joberg, Tel Aviv, Dubai.... They fly 9 days a month, and do well paywise. SYD is a 6 day trip, but the last day you can DH home to ATL if you wish via LAX. We do those types of trips on a lot of our fleets, and being senior helps. I can do 3 day trips to Europe worth 20 or so hours, or do 6 day trips worth up to 40 hours. It sounds like you have variety, but we do too. It is just different, and if you get tired of INTL flying, you can go back to DOM.


This sounds like it will just go round and round, so you just go enjoy your deal and I will enjoy mine.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

General,

You just HAVE to one up every single thread input don't you?

Without fail.

I know it's killing you to respond and tell me how FANTASTIC you are so I'll let you have the last word.

G'head.
Gup

 

[General Lee]

General,

You just HAVE to one up every single thread input don't you?

Without fail.

I know it's killing you to respond and tell me how FANTASTIC you are so I'll let you have the last word.

G'head.
Gup

How do you think I got 13,000 posts? Come on now! Regardless, I hope you guys have a FANTASIC day, and I will too. Bye Now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

And why do I have so many posts? I have been on this board for years, and I bring the computer along on many trips overseas. I have time to do this, and see the world. It's great.[\quote]



I spend too much time at home I guess. I wish I could get all that hotel appreciation time, so I could get my post count up!

 

[General Lee]

And why do I have so many posts? I have been on this board for years, and I bring the computer along on many trips overseas. I have time to do this, and see the world. It's great.



I spend too much time at home I guess. I wish I could get all that hotel appreciation time, so I could get my post count up!

You are probably too tired from all of those AM trips.....and that 1 2 3 rule gets you out of the room and into a bar---wow, that does sound fun--getting wasted in TUL! Try a few beers in Stuttgart, oh wait, you did that as a kid.... LOL!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

You are probably too tired from all of those AM trips.....and that 1 2 3 rule gets you out of the room and into a bar---wow, that does sound fun--getting wasted in TUL! Try a few beers in Stuttgart, oh wait, you did that as a kid.... LOL!


Bye Bye--General Lee

That could explain it, because ams are sleep deprivation exercises. That's why but I haven't done an AM in years. The last time I did one, it was like walking into a Delta lounge! That's a completely different world!

 

[General Lee]

That could explain it, because ams are sleep deprivation exercises. That's why but I haven't done an AM in years. The last time I did one, it was like walking into a Delta lounge! That's a completely different world!

A Delta lounge? You mean like a frequent flyer lounge? You mean rich people in there or businessmen? Yeah, I guess that could be different for you. Free drinks, and actual food for those people there. Better than your crackers on transcons. Hey, your pay is FANTASTIC......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Lol. I meant pilot lounge, but that was funny. You're making me wish I worked morefor less so I could get a leftover 1st class meal once in a while! You got me there!


Gotta push.... I'll get back to you in 3 weeks after my vacation.....

 

[General Lee]

Lol. I meant pilot lounge, but that was funny. You're making me wish I worked morefor less so I could get a leftover 1st class meal once in a while! You got me there!

You work more for less? You mean more legs like you do? I work less legs, and get treated a lot better, for good money. I like how you think you are Donald Trump or something. Wow, you make a few extra hundred dollars a month, and I guess that means you eat caviar at home.... But, I guess you could eat better airport food than I could, if your Captain or you RUNS in the terminal between 25 minute turns.....Make sure you get the Supreme personal pan pizza instead of just pepperoni, cause you can afford it, you fly for SWA........ I bet you tip the van guys $1.25 too instead of a buck....wow---LOL indeed!

BTW, we always get a 1st class meal on INTL flights, and a nice seat to watch a movie or take a nap. It's real nice---especially for us poor DL pilots according to you....LOL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cobra17]

You work more for less? You mean more legs like you do? I work less legs, and get treated a lot better, for good money. I like how you think you are Donald Trump or something. Wow, you make a few extra hundred dollars a month, and I guess that means you eat caviar at home.... But, I guess you could eat better airport food than I could, if your Captain or you RUNS in the terminal between 25 minute turns.....Make sure you get the Supreme personal pan pizza instead of just pepperoni, cause you can afford it, you fly for SWA........ I bet you tip the van guys $1.25 too instead of a buck....wow---LOL indeed!

BTW, we always get a 1st class meal on INTL flights, and a nice seat to watch a movie or take a nap. It's real nice---especially for us poor DL pilots according to you....LOL.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You seem to spend a lot of time trying to convince yourself...err...I mean the rest of us...how great your job is.

Perhaps if we had only worked a little harder, we too could enjoy your glamorous lifestyle.

 

[General Lee]

You seem to spend a lot of time trying to convince yourself...err...I mean the rest of us...how great your job is.

Perhaps if we had only worked a little harder, we too could enjoy your glamorous lifestyle.

Probably not. Hey, what can I say? I am a very lucky guy, that loves to debate the masses.......It just works for me.

As far as you working harder, it appears you have a long way to go. I think you need to start with your debating skills, and then start reading more, especially encyclopedias. It's pretty obvious you are a "tard." I don't know if you can ever "fix" that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cobra17]

Probably not. Hey, what can I say? I am a very lucky guy, that loves to debate the masses.......It just works for me.

As far as you working harder, it appears you have a long way to go. I think you need to start with your debating skills, and then start reading more, especially encyclopedias. It's pretty obvious you are a "tard." I don't know if you can ever "fix" that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are clearly a master debater. Must come from years of practice on those long dark lonely flights.....

 

[General Lee]

You are clearly a master debater. Must come from years of practice on those long dark lonely flights.....

Wow, you actually fell for that. Thanks. That is the ONLY reason anyone would say they "debate the masses." To be a MASS DEBATOR. Come on Tard, you can do better....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jet41]

Really, both of these groups demanded unrealistic outcomes. It just amazes me. No, there shouldn't be DOH or even full relative mix, but a pure staple is just ridiculous. Why don't you let neutrals (arbitrators) figure it out? I know why: You are AFRAID of the outcome. Let people on the outside determine what is fair. Gary Kelly says "PLEASE, Ya'll. Just do it...." Nah, it won't happen, the SWA guys won't allow it.... If so, let Republic come around and beat SWA in DEN at their own game.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It would be interesting to see if you opinion would be the same if you worked for WN.

 

[SWA/FO]

So, why didn't we go for a staple for the NWA guys?

Because you guys were BOTH bankrupt and it would not have been fair.

 

[General Lee]

It would be interesting to see if you opinion would be the same if you worked for WN.

Probably would not have happened, since I already did my regional/Commuter flying and I wanted a choice between DOM and INTL flying instead.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Because you guys were BOTH bankrupt and it would not have been fair.

That was quite awhile since we BOTH went BK, and our payscales were different, and rules/pensions. The problem with your argument is that F9 wasn't going to liquidate, and a better offer (Republic's was actually better--Kelly got humiliated by Bedford and his team) was on the table. If F9 could bring you some value, then you should have offered them something better. It wasn't just an asset sale, since the F9 pilots' contract stated they came with the assets. Again, your team got smacked. Just re-read that Dallas Morning News article again.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Now we are going to believe everything we read in the newspaper? I'm sure there are some good articles on DAL out there that are all true!

 

[Metro752]

DING DING DING

GENITAL LEEE, LOOOOSAH

SOUFWEIST PIRATES, WINNNAH

You RECEIVE one Asian Prostitute!

MEEEEEEE SOOOOOO HAWNY!

 

[Reebo]

DING DING DING

GENITAL LEEE, LOOOOSAH

SOUFWEIST PIRATES, WINNNAH

You RECEIVE one Asian Prostitute!

MEEEEEEE SOOOOOO HAWNY!

Now I don't care who who are, that's frickin funny!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: