Is Delta a PFT outfit?

[Full of LUV]

It is sad how we have allowed our career to be eroded and disrespected here in the U.S. not even in third world countries and very small outfits worldwide companies would even dream of not providing you with accommodation and transportation during training, but the saddest of all is that some of you are even defending this practice as "business as usual" the industry has exploited 9/11 and the economic downturn so masterfully and for so many years that a new generation of pilots have grown into believing that this is the norm. By some of the responses justifying these practices here I have to say "bravo to management" you have over the years perfected the art of koolaid making

Maybe so, but this has been this way at Delta for quite some time, maybe since their beginning, but long before 9/11.
Really it's being made quite the big deal here, actually you get PS tickets for you and spouse and hotel room for indoc, then they PS your wife home. You also get PS ticket home for any break in training longer than 48hrs??? (Don't remember the exact hour).
Really with some of the highest starting pay in the pax industry, it's much less of an issue than being made, especially since so many actually live in ATL.
Could it be a little better, heck yes, but it's all a give and take.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Maybe so, but this has been this way at Delta for quite some time, maybe since their beginning, but long before 9/11.
Really it's being made quite the big deal here, actually you get PS tickets for you and spouse and hotel room for indoc, then they PS your wife home. You also get PS ticket home for any break in training longer than 48hrs??? (Don't remember the exact hour).
Really with some of the highest starting pay in the pax industry, it's much less of an issue than being made, especially since so many actually live in ATL.
Could it be a little better, heck yes, but it's all a give and take.

There is no other career that I am aware of that an individual that is hired because of specialized technical expertise is given such a pathetic starting pay and most certainly not treated in a manner that represents the important contribution that his or her technical know how will bring to the organization; after all this individual will bring hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue to the organization over his/her career life span, this individual is trusted everyday with hundreds of millions of company assets and is responsible for a complicated operation that has huge liabilities. I couldn't care less if it was the Wright brothers that started this practice, aviation is the ONLY industry that treats new hires of such important economical relevance in such a disrespectful manner and the fact that is been going on for a long time doesn't justify it.

 

[tico]

I think Alaska is 29.00 an hour to start and you put yourself up from day 1...That was in 2000...finished IOE at 12:30 am, check airman went to the hotel, I went to the parking lot at the hotel.......they did a great job of making you not feel like a part of the team.....

 

[titans10]

Airtran you have to put yourself up also. Atleast that was the way in 98.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

OP, are you saying that this is a deal breaker for you. That you wouldnt apply to Delta (or accept an offer) b/c of this? GTFOOH.

 

[JOPILOT]

I paid $150 for 5 weeks in ATL, if I am a world class sell out for 2.2 million dollar bump over my career compared to flying and RJ, make the T-shirt and I am happy to wear it!

Hell, I even got to experience a few $1 Braves games along the way!

JP

 

[waveflyer]

Nope - jp I hope you're part of the new crowd that gets how bad outsourcing has been-

It's your senior pilots that CHOSE to sellout 90 seaters in 2006 that I have a problem with.

 

[Truckdriver]

It's your senior pilots that CHOSE to sellout 90 seaters in 2006 that I have a problem with.

Crap...I've been here almost 4 years and I didn't know we had 90-seaters. That sucks!

 

[waveflyer]

Crap...I've been here almost 4 years and I didn't know we had 90-seaters. That sucks!

Lumberg likes to remind me that most are scope limited to 76 seats- ie: more 1st class seats- but there are a handful of 84 seaters-
My argument back is that they are CRJ-900's
And unless your willing to let skywest fly airbuses configured to 76 seats- you should shelve that argument

 

[johnsonrod]

Lumberg likes to remind me that most are scope limited to 76 seats- ie: more 1st class seats- but there are a handful of 84 seaters-
My argument back is that they are CRJ-900's
And unless your willing to let skywest fly airbuses configured to 76 seats- you should shelve that argument

Someone told me there was a weight limit on the planes that feed Delta. Didn't they have a problem with some version of the E175 because it was barely over the weight limit?

 

[DH106]

It is sad how we have allowed our career to be eroded and disrespected here in the U.S. not even in third world countries and very small outfits worldwide companies would even dream of not providing you with accommodation and transportation during training, but the saddest of all is that some of you are even defending this practice as "business as usual" the industry has exploited 9/11 and the economic downturn so masterfully and for so many years that a new generation of pilots have grown into believing that this is the norm. By some of the responses justifying these practices here I have to say "bravo to management" you have over the years perfected the art of koolaid making

How can any of us not agree with what Dumb Pilot said, above? I'm also amazed at the apologetic, defensiveness of so many pilots when these companies fail to provide all the essential things for newhire training. And, yes, accomodation is essential. If the company wants you well-rested and free from worries, they should provide suitable accomodation. And, it's not like you can live at home during training—you've got to relocate to their training center. It is the company's burden—not the newhire's.

A cousin of mine is a doctor with three years experience. A hospital in Iowa just hired him and is providing him with a $15,000 signing bonus, a pay raise from his current hospital, $500 per month living expenses for six months, and they're paying-off his student loans!!! The only thing they're not doing is buying his existing house in Illinois.

So, explain how any of us can justify that certain professions take care of their newhires, while the piloting profession routinely takes a dump on them? Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

 

[waveflyer]

Bc we collectively bargain- all competition for labor stops as the only goal for either side is to get a seniority #, and for the company- to management entire seniority list-
It gets very political- whereas your cousin got all that bc he had options and they had to provide that to retain him-

Make no mistake though- accountants and bussinessmen have been attacking all professions effectively - including the doctoring profession

But for us- until we realize that mgmt uses our seniority against us- we'll have trouble-
They are very good at dividing us-
Unions don't work unless the senior look out for the junior- when it works the other way- it's a scam and everyone- including the senior will suffer

 

[johnsonrod]

How can any of us not agree with what Dumb Pilot said, above? I'm also amazed at the apologetic, defensiveness of so many pilots when these companies fail to provide all the essential things for newhire training. And, yes, accomodation is essential. If the company wants you well-rested and free from worries, they should provide suitable accomodation. And, it's not like you can live at home during training—you've got to relocate to their training center. It is the company's burden—not the newhire's.

A cousin of mine is a doctor with three years experience. A hospital in Iowa just hired him and is providing him with a $15,000 signing bonus, a pay raise from his current hospital, $500 per month living expenses for six months, and they're paying-off his student loans!!! The only thing they're not doing is buying his existing house in Illinois.

So, explain how any of us can justify that certain professions take care of their
newhires, while the piloting profession routinely takes a dump on them? Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

 

[waveflyer]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

But have you seen MelissaMidwest??
!!!
:-/)

 

[Quimby]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

Paid off student loans, signing bonus, live there a few years....doesn't sound so bad.

Grow up. Not everyone's daddy was a 747 captain and footed the bill for training & school.....regardless of their profession.

 

[johnsonrod]

Paid off student loans, signing bonus, live there a few years....doesn't sound so bad.

Grow up. Not everyone's daddy was a 747 captain and footed the bill for training & school.....regardless of their profession.

He sure didn't have to give me additional help paying for a 737 type to help possibly buy a job. And Iowa sounds great, why doesn't SWA go there? You will be close with Moline, which excites you probably. Yet another benefit from your merger.

 

[DH106]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

No offense, Jonsonrod, but you've really missed the point. You can also look at it this way: maybe nobody wants to live in Iowa. But, he's doing it because there's a financial benefit to doing so. The problem with the piloting profession is that we can work at a sub-standard company (or work in sub-standard conditions), and we'll receive no financial benefit to doing so. We often have no choice when it comes to our careers. And, that's the problem—we shouldn't be apologizing or defending that fact. It's a travesty, and nothing more.

 

[Quimby]

He sure didn't have to give me additional help paying for a 737 type to help possibly buy a job. And Iowa sounds great, why doesn't SWA go there? You will be close with Moline, which excites you probably. Yet another benefit from your merger.

GL called, he said you were supposed to be over before noon to clean his pool.

There goes your recommendation letter!

 

[Full of LUV]

Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

All hail the SWAPA....

Where the he$T$UY were you in the 80's and 90's as SWAPA worked for 75% of the 737 payrates, no retirement (DB type), and no retiree medical care which was part of nearly every other airline operating a guppy's contract at the time?

You SWA apologists have this moment in time to say, "oh look, swa knows how to pay its pilots" bad DAL, bad UAL, bad AMR, bad everyone else.....

If your looking at newhire accomodations as your model then I suggest you open your scope of career renumeration considerations.

And yes, the IOWA hospital paid all that because NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THERE! Its a competitive world / marketplace and the job bears what one is willing to accept or your union is able to negotiate.

If everyone refused DAL newhire class because they considered them ATL based until IOE, well I guess the policy would have to change.

 

[Truckdriver]

Lumberg likes to remind me that most are scope limited to 76 seats- ie: more 1st class seats- but there are a handful of 84 seaters-
My argument back is that they are CRJ-900's
And unless your willing to let skywest fly airbuses configured to 76 seats- you should shelve that argument

They can't fly an Airbus with 76 seats in it because it weighs more than 86,000 pounds which our scope prohibits. The CRJ-900 is not a 90-seat jet, it's a 76-seat jet and will always be a 76-seat jet when flown for Delta. They are also at the cap for 76-seaters so you won't be seeing anymore new CRJ-900's or E-175's hit the line. They have room for about 20 more CRJ-700's or E-170's then that's it for DCI growth.

The Delta group is a different animal than it was a few years back. There will NEVER be a DCI jet that carries more than 76 people or that weighs more than 86,000 pounds.