Is Colgan going to be IBT?

[suupah]

Seems like the majority of the support for union representation at Colgan is for teamsters.

1. why?
2. Why?

 

[YMICFI]

?

I don't know why....makes no logical common sense.

 

[DoinTime]

With 27 domiciles, how can you possibly tell? From what people have been saying there is no organization or structure from the IBT in this organizing drive. Is that who you want representing you?

 

[better up here]

there is lots of talk about them in iah, but i think it sounds like a majority because they are the ones talking right now.

the alpa guys are just keeping calm at this point waiting for the vote. i like alpa, will take teamsters, but don't want to miss the boat two years in a row...

 

[better up here]

Seems like the majority of the support for union representation at Colgan is for teamsters.

1. why?
2. Why?

1. less money
2. some other lame answer

that's all i hear in houston. they say 'money,' then something else just as wise. i read a little of the literature and it made some sense, but for me, i want a union that has a large pilot base. yeah, there are 1 1/2 million in the teamsters, but i don't drive a truck.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

 

[BirdCatcher]

Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

 

[YMICFI]

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

Well said. If there is a merger, Pinnacle being ALPA, Colgan would be in a better position being ALPA as well. The merger would happen in accordance with ALPA's merger policy.

If there is a better reason for the choice, I would say it is because ALPA represents pilots. Only pilots. They understand the unique needs of pilots. There are many more resources for a pilot under the ALPA umbrella. Since IBT represents all different kinds of labor groups, without specializing in pilots, the representation would be better with ALPA. Also, the bargaining power with management of Pinnacle and the pilots of Pinnacle would be stronger.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Originally Posted by GEORGE DUBYA
Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

Like most every other thing in life... division conquers... Divided we fail.... Join forces become a BIG voice... negotiate together... and pull each other up! Or...Vote in teamsters... bring in division... and pull the other down as we continue this race to the bottom... Strength in numbers!
Given the nod nod...wink wink...hush hush leadership that has brought the IBT this far... I dont have a great deal of condindence in being able to accomplish a great deal or even achieve a contract that is worth a whole lot... somewhere between what we have now and what the FA's have is probably on the mark.. which is just pathetic... Again... join forces... work on a common contract through both groups... tell managemnt where to go... and what handbasket will get them there....

Cheers my brothers!:beer:
V1

 

[Flyer1015]

Get ready for a staple.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

Get ready for a staple.

Ignore the clown. Some of us don't have a 10 beer minimum before posting on a public forum.

Now imagine that Colgan pilots vote in ALPA. If the Colgan pilots merge their ALPA with Pinnacle ALPA then all of the pilots come together to form one bargaining unit. Our Master Executive Council is comprised of elected leaders from each domicile and they vote on the important items of union business. If Colgan ALPA is part of Pinnacle ALPA then the MEC becomes bigger with elected Colgan reps in the room voting along side Pinnacle reps.

The ideal situation is that both pilot groups negotiate a single contract. If we have the same medical plans, 401K contributions, vacation accrual, scheduling rules and the pay rates are applicable on either certificate then the corporation loses all ability to make the two pilot groups fight against each other for flying. If negotiations break down to a strike them both Colgan and Pinnacle pilots go on strike.

The one area that will cause the most fight between the pilot groups will be seniority list integration. There are two separate operating certificates and the ability to jump from EWR Q400 captain to MEM CRJ Captain is difficult and requires changing operating certificates. That shouldn't stop us from acting like idiots in a knock down drag out fight for seniority. :uzi:

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

 

[YMICFI]

Ignore the clown. Some of us don't have a 10 beer minimum before posting on a public forum.

Now imagine that Colgan pilots vote in ALPA. If the Colgan pilots merge their ALPA with Pinnacle ALPA then all of the pilots come together to form one bargaining unit. Our Master Executive Council is comprised of elected leaders from each domicile and they vote on the important items of union business. If Colgan ALPA is part of Pinnacle ALPA then the MEC becomes bigger with elected Colgan reps in the room voting along side Pinnacle reps.

The ideal situation is that both pilot groups negotiate a single contract. If we have the same medical plans, 401K contributions, vacation accrual, scheduling rules and the pay rates are applicable on either certificate then the corporation loses all ability to make the two pilot groups fight against each other for flying. If negotiations break down to a strike them both Colgan and Pinnacle pilots go on strike.

The one area that will cause the most fight between the pilot groups will be seniority list integration. There are two separate operating certificates and the ability to jump from EWR Q400 captain to MEM CRJ Captain is difficult and requires changing operating certificates. That shouldn't stop us from acting like idiots in a knock down drag out fight for seniority. :uzi:

Perfectly said. Enough said. Vote in ALPA!

 

[DoinTime]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

Alpa's merger policy calls for a fair and equitable seniority integration. It provides for both mediation and arbitration if the parties can't come to an agreement themselves. The policy is strictly a "hands off" from anyone at National and both groups are responsible for getting it done. I don't ever recall an ALPA-ALPA merger that resulted in anything close to staple job. Cross union mergers are usually not as pretty though.

If the smaller pilot group being merged is over 1/3 the size of the total merged pilot group they can force a representational election where all pilots would get to choose between the two representatives. If the smaller pilot group does not meet the 1/3 population threshold then they are just absorbed by the larger pilot group and their former bargaining agent goes away without recourse.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Vote in Teamsters, Pinnacle and Colgan merge, Colgan gets stapled to the bottom of the list.
Vote in Nobody, Colgan gets stapled to the bottom.
Vote in ALPA, Pinnacle and Colgan merge, both pilot groups merge according to ALPA merger policy.
How stupid does a Colgan pilot have to be to not see this? ALPA gives the only fighting chance to a Colgan pilot, but they'll probably screw this up again.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

You know we had a union drive last year. Why didn't you take it seriously enough to learn what the ALPA merger policy was then? You grabbed your free lunch and that was that, doing yourself you and your fellow pilots a disservice.

If we were teamsters and were merged we would become ALPA, the larger union would prevail. Teamsters will throw us under the bus. They would have no incentive to help us. At least with ALPA it would go by the ALPA merger policy. Read it for yourself.

 

[suupah]

there is lots of talk about them in iah, but i think it sounds like a majority because they are the ones talking right now.

the alpa guys are just keeping calm at this point waiting for the vote. i like alpa, will take teamsters, but don't want to miss the boat two years in a row...

I hear ya brotha. anything is better than what we have now.

Lets just hope we can reach as many people as we can to help them understand the bigger picture.

vote ALPA!

 

[Turtlesfly]

i would like to here why. I need to be educated

Ironic you put those 2 next to each other....

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Well said. If there is a merger, Pinnacle being ALPA, Colgan would be in a better position being ALPA as well. The merger would happen in accordance with ALPA's merger policy.

If there is a better reason for the choice, I would say it is because ALPA represents pilots. Only pilots. They understand the unique needs of pilots. There are many more resources for a pilot under the ALPA umbrella. Since IBT represents all different kinds of labor groups, without specializing in pilots, the representation would be better with ALPA. Also, the bargaining power with management of Pinnacle and the pilots of Pinnacle would be stronger.

Not necessarily. How many pilots are at Pinnacle vs. how many pilots are at Colgan? A single list will only help the larger pilot group when it hits the fan and people start losing jobs.

It's definitely something to think about and hear all the facts from both unions. And either one of them is better than NO union.