Is Colgan going to be IBT?

[suupah]

Seems like the majority of the support for union representation at Colgan is for teamsters.

1. why?
2. Why?

 

[YMICFI]

?

I don't know why....makes no logical common sense.

 

[DoinTime]

With 27 domiciles, how can you possibly tell? From what people have been saying there is no organization or structure from the IBT in this organizing drive. Is that who you want representing you?

 

[better up here]

there is lots of talk about them in iah, but i think it sounds like a majority because they are the ones talking right now.

the alpa guys are just keeping calm at this point waiting for the vote. i like alpa, will take teamsters, but don't want to miss the boat two years in a row...

 

[better up here]

Seems like the majority of the support for union representation at Colgan is for teamsters.

1. why?
2. Why?

1. less money
2. some other lame answer

that's all i hear in houston. they say 'money,' then something else just as wise. i read a little of the literature and it made some sense, but for me, i want a union that has a large pilot base. yeah, there are 1 1/2 million in the teamsters, but i don't drive a truck.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

 

[BirdCatcher]

Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

 

[YMICFI]

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

Well said. If there is a merger, Pinnacle being ALPA, Colgan would be in a better position being ALPA as well. The merger would happen in accordance with ALPA's merger policy.

If there is a better reason for the choice, I would say it is because ALPA represents pilots. Only pilots. They understand the unique needs of pilots. There are many more resources for a pilot under the ALPA umbrella. Since IBT represents all different kinds of labor groups, without specializing in pilots, the representation would be better with ALPA. Also, the bargaining power with management of Pinnacle and the pilots of Pinnacle would be stronger.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Originally Posted by GEORGE DUBYA
Tough choise teamsters less money but alpa free food during drive. Are there lots of Colgan people out there that want our lists merged and i would like to here why. I need to be educated before I can make and informed decision so only for colgan people won't alpa merge us and what are the pros and cons? And how would they merge us assuming that is what they will do

Ummmmmm remember management runs the company. They merge the companies. IF management merged the companies even if we were teamsters we would become ALPA. Why would Teamsters provide us with ample money and resources in a merger when at the end of it we would be a different union? Being ALPA isn't about merging, it's about having the most resources available to make a Colgan Pilots Union successful. Being Teamsters, ALPA, actors guilde doesn't mean anything. The pilots make the union a success. That's why Teamsters and ALPA have both success stories and failures.

Like most every other thing in life... division conquers... Divided we fail.... Join forces become a BIG voice... negotiate together... and pull each other up! Or...Vote in teamsters... bring in division... and pull the other down as we continue this race to the bottom... Strength in numbers!
Given the nod nod...wink wink...hush hush leadership that has brought the IBT this far... I dont have a great deal of condindence in being able to accomplish a great deal or even achieve a contract that is worth a whole lot... somewhere between what we have now and what the FA's have is probably on the mark.. which is just pathetic... Again... join forces... work on a common contract through both groups... tell managemnt where to go... and what handbasket will get them there....

Cheers my brothers!:beer:
V1

 

[Flyer1015]

Get ready for a staple.

 

[pilotdiscretion]

Get ready for a staple.

Ignore the clown. Some of us don't have a 10 beer minimum before posting on a public forum.

Now imagine that Colgan pilots vote in ALPA. If the Colgan pilots merge their ALPA with Pinnacle ALPA then all of the pilots come together to form one bargaining unit. Our Master Executive Council is comprised of elected leaders from each domicile and they vote on the important items of union business. If Colgan ALPA is part of Pinnacle ALPA then the MEC becomes bigger with elected Colgan reps in the room voting along side Pinnacle reps.

The ideal situation is that both pilot groups negotiate a single contract. If we have the same medical plans, 401K contributions, vacation accrual, scheduling rules and the pay rates are applicable on either certificate then the corporation loses all ability to make the two pilot groups fight against each other for flying. If negotiations break down to a strike them both Colgan and Pinnacle pilots go on strike.

The one area that will cause the most fight between the pilot groups will be seniority list integration. There are two separate operating certificates and the ability to jump from EWR Q400 captain to MEM CRJ Captain is difficult and requires changing operating certificates. That shouldn't stop us from acting like idiots in a knock down drag out fight for seniority. :uzi:

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

 

[YMICFI]

Ignore the clown. Some of us don't have a 10 beer minimum before posting on a public forum.

Now imagine that Colgan pilots vote in ALPA. If the Colgan pilots merge their ALPA with Pinnacle ALPA then all of the pilots come together to form one bargaining unit. Our Master Executive Council is comprised of elected leaders from each domicile and they vote on the important items of union business. If Colgan ALPA is part of Pinnacle ALPA then the MEC becomes bigger with elected Colgan reps in the room voting along side Pinnacle reps.

The ideal situation is that both pilot groups negotiate a single contract. If we have the same medical plans, 401K contributions, vacation accrual, scheduling rules and the pay rates are applicable on either certificate then the corporation loses all ability to make the two pilot groups fight against each other for flying. If negotiations break down to a strike them both Colgan and Pinnacle pilots go on strike.

The one area that will cause the most fight between the pilot groups will be seniority list integration. There are two separate operating certificates and the ability to jump from EWR Q400 captain to MEM CRJ Captain is difficult and requires changing operating certificates. That shouldn't stop us from acting like idiots in a knock down drag out fight for seniority. :uzi:

Perfectly said. Enough said. Vote in ALPA!

 

[DoinTime]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

Alpa's merger policy calls for a fair and equitable seniority integration. It provides for both mediation and arbitration if the parties can't come to an agreement themselves. The policy is strictly a "hands off" from anyone at National and both groups are responsible for getting it done. I don't ever recall an ALPA-ALPA merger that resulted in anything close to staple job. Cross union mergers are usually not as pretty though.

If the smaller pilot group being merged is over 1/3 the size of the total merged pilot group they can force a representational election where all pilots would get to choose between the two representatives. If the smaller pilot group does not meet the 1/3 population threshold then they are just absorbed by the larger pilot group and their former bargaining agent goes away without recourse.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Vote in Teamsters, Pinnacle and Colgan merge, Colgan gets stapled to the bottom of the list.
Vote in Nobody, Colgan gets stapled to the bottom.
Vote in ALPA, Pinnacle and Colgan merge, both pilot groups merge according to ALPA merger policy.
How stupid does a Colgan pilot have to be to not see this? ALPA gives the only fighting chance to a Colgan pilot, but they'll probably screw this up again.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Okay so what is alpa's merger policy realistically what would happen are the Colgan pilots going to be thrown on the bottom? and why if colgan got teamsters and management decided to merge than colgan would become alpa because pinnacle is bigger?

You know we had a union drive last year. Why didn't you take it seriously enough to learn what the ALPA merger policy was then? You grabbed your free lunch and that was that, doing yourself you and your fellow pilots a disservice.

If we were teamsters and were merged we would become ALPA, the larger union would prevail. Teamsters will throw us under the bus. They would have no incentive to help us. At least with ALPA it would go by the ALPA merger policy. Read it for yourself.

 

[suupah]

there is lots of talk about them in iah, but i think it sounds like a majority because they are the ones talking right now.

the alpa guys are just keeping calm at this point waiting for the vote. i like alpa, will take teamsters, but don't want to miss the boat two years in a row...

I hear ya brotha. anything is better than what we have now.

Lets just hope we can reach as many people as we can to help them understand the bigger picture.

vote ALPA!

 

[Turtlesfly]

i would like to here why. I need to be educated

Ironic you put those 2 next to each other....

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Well said. If there is a merger, Pinnacle being ALPA, Colgan would be in a better position being ALPA as well. The merger would happen in accordance with ALPA's merger policy.

If there is a better reason for the choice, I would say it is because ALPA represents pilots. Only pilots. They understand the unique needs of pilots. There are many more resources for a pilot under the ALPA umbrella. Since IBT represents all different kinds of labor groups, without specializing in pilots, the representation would be better with ALPA. Also, the bargaining power with management of Pinnacle and the pilots of Pinnacle would be stronger.

Not necessarily. How many pilots are at Pinnacle vs. how many pilots are at Colgan? A single list will only help the larger pilot group when it hits the fan and people start losing jobs.

It's definitely something to think about and hear all the facts from both unions. And either one of them is better than NO union.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Will I still get free lunch this time? Well this sucks sounds like Colgan is fd no matter what happens. Seems like keeping the two seperate is the way to go.

 

[BirdCatcher]

Will I still get free lunch this time? Well this sucks sounds like Colgan is fd no matter what happens. Seems like keeping the two seperate is the way to go.

Don't worry you will get everything you deserve. I just feel bad for those who work beside you who deserve better.

 

[better up here]

You know we had a union drive last year. Why didn't you take it seriously enough to learn what the ALPA merger policy was then? You grabbed your free lunch and that was that, doing yourself you and your fellow pilots a disservice.

one of four?

 

[cloudkicker1981]

This is funny mark my words.....there will be no merging of any list. Pinnicale corp fought it and won. Keep pulling eachothers monkeys over there and stop trying to bully us into ALPA. Most colgan peops dont even post because we know its all BS. Yes we need a union but not for concern of a merger...its not going to happen. Also why would there be? Keep flying those pretty crj's and we'll fly are hick turpo props!

 

[BirdCatcher]

This is funny mark my words.....there will be no merging of any list. Pinnicale corp fought it and won. Keep pulling eachothers monkeys over there and stop trying to bully us into ALPA. Most colgan peops dont even post because we know its all BS. Yes we need a union but not for concern of a merger...its not going to happen. Also why would there be? Keep flying those pretty crj's and we'll fly are hick turpo props!

Yes, we need a union, but why not ALPA? And your right there probably won't be a merger, then again last year all us colgan pilots said we are here to get our time and get out. How's that working out right now? If colgan keeps bleeding red ink as we are, a merger gets closer to reality. Last year we were told outstation basing won't go away, now look. Business models change don't you get it?

 

[DoinTime]

Yes, we need a union, but why not ALPA? And your right there probably won't be a merger, then again last year all us colgan pilots said we are here to get our time and get out. How's that working out right now? If colgan keeps bleeding red ink as we are, a merger gets closer to reality. Last year we were told outstation basing won't go away, now look. Business models change don't you get it?

With Colgan losing $20 million per year you'd better be careful on what you consider to be absolute certainty. With that kind of bleeding going on you can expect huge changes to the original business plan.

 

[PinnacleDude]

This is funny mark my words.....there will be no merging of any list.

Good luck. The small turboprops are going to slowly go away. If the Pinnacle guys negotiate to fly everything new over 40 seats your future is secured. And not in a good way.

I recommend voting in ALPA and work to get a reasonable integration. That is what the ALPA constitution and bylaws calls for. There are a lot of very fair minded Pinnacle Pilots that would work well with the Colgan counterparts make the integration go smoothly. It would be a win for both groups. Staying separate only plays into management's hands. Joining the groups would provide greater negotiating leverage sooner.

If you dont work to integrate, you will be limited to your existing flying as the Pinnacle pilots will scope you out in time.

 

[cloudkicker1981]

WHat LIst

Good luck. The small turboprops are going to slowly go away. If the Pinnacle guys negotiate to fly everything new over 40 seats your future is secured. And not in a good way.

I recommend voting in ALPA and work to get a reasonable integration. That is what the ALPA constitution and bylaws calls for. There are a lot of very fair minded Pinnacle Pilots that would work well with the Colgan counterparts make the integration go smoothly. It would be a win for both groups. Staying separate only plays into management's hands. Joining the groups would provide greater negotiating leverage sooner.

If you dont work to integrate, you will be limited to your existing flying as the Pinnacle pilots will scope you out in time.

Very simple....the ruling is its TWO different company's. Your scope doesn't effect us, why are you guys still trying to bring up a merger. I have no problems with pinnicale pilots but why do you insist that you guys have some kinda power of merging this so called list. We will vote in a union and colgan will start producing profits real soon....again mark my words. Yes we are redesigning our fleet to better meet todays market and we will continue to trim up. You can continue to try and intimidate the greenhorns on here but the roughneck colgan boyz really could give a crap about your LIST lmao!! I got your staple right here

 

[Flyer1015]

Alpa's merger policy calls for a fair and equitable seniority integration. It provides for both mediation and arbitration if the parties can't come to an agreement themselves.

Fair and equitable? I've always liked you DoinTime. But try and say fair and equitable to the most recent merger example of two ALPA carriers, US Airways and America West. As you said yourself, arbitration could be necessary if the parties can't come to an agreement.

And look what happened. US Airways East guys gave ALPA the finger, and walked out of ALPA to form their own union.

I digress.

Back to the staple thing. If not staple, at the least we need strong fences, in terms of who can jump to what seat/equipment/domicile.

We, actually "Pinnacle Airlines Corp" bought out Colgan, not the other way around. And as AWA did to US Airways (bought them out), the seniority result has to pretty much go in favor of the buying company.

And whatever came about that arbitrators decision regarding Corp buying Colgan, and how it was a shell holding company? Last I heard, the arbitrator reversed his decision. Or something like that. Bottom line, it stalled.

 

[Flyer1015]

roughneck colgan boyz really could give a crap about your LIST lmao!! I got your staple right here

Do you really think Colgan will be able to staple Pinnacle?