Is AA ever going to recall?

[aa73]

2-14-00 junior F/O
6-?-90 junior CA

73

 

[TheRaven]

I heard from an APA union guy that he thinks the master plan is to continue thinning the heard at AA via retirements and parking of older aircraft, and when the numbers get down low enough they are gonna merge AE and AA, making all new hires come into the mainline through AE.....this is a way to get lower wage scales on AA property and a means to get newer more efficient large RJs while keeping payscales low on them. Probably some provision for furloughees to come back, but I would be willing to wager most are already happily employed somewhere else...I'd be surprised if you saw a 25% acceptance rate for recall.

 

[80drvr]

I heard from an APA union guy that he thinks the master plan is to continue thinning the heard at AA via retirements and parking of older aircraft, and when the numbers get down low enough they are gonna merge AE and AA, making all new hires come into the mainline through AE.....this is a way to get lower wage scales on AA property and a means to get newer more efficient large RJs while keeping payscales low on them. Probably some provision for furloughees to come back, but I would be willing to wager most are already happily employed somewhere else...I'd be surprised if you saw a 25% acceptance rate for recall.

That's a little on the wild side. Which "APA union" guy said this?

 

[AA717driver]

Given the level of cooperation between APA and Eagle MEC, I don't forsee any merging of the lists until Sup. W is dead and gone.

Nothing will happen until the arbitrator rules on the Eagle grievance about AA Transition Class being considered "Newhire Training". That should happen in a couple of months.

The next step will be in determining whether the Flowthroughs who have assigned spots on the seniority list will maintain those spots after Sup. W dies.

I would imagine recalls will begin prior to the last event. TC

 

[frog_flyer]

whats the hire date of the most junior CA out of dfw?

same?

 

[Flyby1206]

I heard from an APA union guy that he thinks the master plan is to continue thinning the heard at AA via retirements and parking of older aircraft, and when the numbers get down low enough they are gonna merge AE and AA, making all new hires come into the mainline through AE.....this is a way to get lower wage scales on AA property and a means to get newer more efficient large RJs while keeping payscales low on them. Probably some provision for furloughees to come back, but I would be willing to wager most are already happily employed somewhere else...I'd be surprised if you saw a 25% acceptance rate for recall.

Thats actually why I was curious the DOH for those JR guys at AA. The JR AA CA is 6/90. We only have 580 out of 3000 people at AE who were hired before 6/90. JR AA FO is 2/00, which would match up closely with our JR AE CA 8/99. Logistically, the two lists would fit together well. As for all the AA furloughed which fit in between, maybe AMR getting a new a/c (190?) and offer the CA slots to AA furloughed, and the FO slots to AE folks. I know APA and Eagle MEC dont get along, but there has been much talk about a getting new union in house. It does sound far-fetched I know.
From the business side of things, AMR would be able to reduce many overlapping mgmt positions between the two companies, hopefully streamlining the ratio of personnel per aircraft.

 

[AA717driver]

Thats actually why I was curious the DOH for those JR guys at AA. The JR AA CA is 6/90. We only have 580 out of 3000 people at AE who were hired before 6/90. JR AA FO is 2/00, which would match up closely with our JR AE CA 8/99. Logistically, the two lists would fit together well. As for all the AA furloughed which fit in between, maybe AMR getting a new a/c (190?) and offer the CA slots to AA furloughed, and the FO slots to AE folks. I know APA and Eagle MEC dont get along, but there has been much talk about a getting new union in house. It does sound far-fetched I know.
From the business side of things, AMR would be able to reduce many overlapping mgmt positions between the two companies, hopefully streamlining the ratio of personnel per aircraft.

I think getting the small jets at AA is imperative.

I think getting EALPA to agree to anything but DOH will be impossible.

I think slotting Eagle pilots who don't already have a seniority number at AA ahead of those furloughed would not be acceptable to APA.

I think it will be tough to bring in the small jets at a pay scale that is acceptable to the membership. (Regardless of "industry standard".)

Great post, though. Maybe something can be worked out.TC

 

[aa73]

whats the hire date of the most junior CA out of dfw?

same?

Nah, the junor DFW CA is hired April 1989.

 

[frog_flyer]

if someone senior to that 4/89 guy is bypassing upgrading because they love being top dog on the F/O list, will the 4/89 guy be bumped back to the right seat if he [senior bypass guy] chooses to upgrade? Or "one more CA on reserve can't hurt"




\/ - i'm sure hes on the 80

 

[satpak77]

Nah, the junor DFW CA is hired April 1989.

out of curiousity, what equipment is he flying?

 

[aa73]

if someone senior to that 4/89 guy is bypassing upgrading because they love being top dog on the F/O list, will the 4/89 guy be bumped back to the right seat if he [senior bypass guy] chooses to upgrade? Or "one more CA on reserve can't hurt"




\/ - i'm sure hes on the 80

He is an MD80 CA.

As far as displacing the more senior guy - the way I understand it is this: The company won't award a new CA position unless there is a vacancy. And if there indeed is a vacancy, then there will be room for both CAs to fit in without any displacing.

Also, it's pretty hard to just sit as a senior F/O at AA because of the "up or out" policy we've had for years. Whenever someone junior to you in the same base and equipment gets an upgrade, your "clock" starts and gives you around 2 years to upgrade. (can be extended with CP's apporval.)

73

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Thats actually why I was curious the DOH for those JR guys at AA. The JR AA CA is 6/90. We only have 580 out of 3000 people at AE who were hired before 6/90. JR AA FO is 2/00, which would match up closely with our JR AE CA 8/99. Logistically, the two lists would fit together well. As for all the AA furloughed which fit in between, maybe AMR getting a new a/c (190?) and offer the CA slots to AA furloughed, and the FO slots to AE folks. I know APA and Eagle MEC dont get along, but there has been much talk about a getting new union in house. It does sound far-fetched I know.
From the business side of things, AMR would be able to reduce many overlapping mgmt positions between the two companies, hopefully streamlining the ratio of personnel per aircraft.[/quote

Are you actually saying DOH would be a reasonable solution? There is NO way it would ever happen - nor should it. If you Eagle guys want to get on at AA, apply for the job when AA starts to hire (in about six or seven years).

 

[Flyby1206]

I'm not saying it is a reasonable solution. I am not saying it will happen. If I had my way then Eagle would still be strictly turboprops and AA would be all jet with a distinct line between the two. I am all for better payscales and QOL at AA and making sacrifices with bad pay and schedules at Eagle. I do not want to fly a RJ for the rest of my career. What I DO want is a chance for advancement and career progression. All I ask is that everyone has an open mind. After all, there have been several "Eagle will never ever" statements that have happened.

 

[satpak77]

are you guys proposing under the "new system" that a "new hire AA pilot" will start right seat in the SF-340, move to the RJ, and maybe 20 years later be in the 737?

One seniority list, etc?

?????

 

[Flyby1206]

are you guys proposing under the "new system" that a "new hire AA pilot" will start right seat in the SF-340, move to the RJ, and maybe 20 years later be in the 737?

One seniority list, etc?

?????

Well, all of your newhire AA pilots are in the left seat of our RJs now.
We have 1400CAs total. 412 of them are AA pilots who flowed back to the left seat. Sen#s range from 10090 to 12800. We also have 394 AE CAs who already have AA sen #s ranging from 9600 to 13140. So, more than 50% of our CAs have #s on your list already.

 

[TheRaven]

Well, AA has parked a bunch of Super 80s and is seeking productivity increases from pilots...now the Company has approaced APA with early openers for the 2008 contract negotiations. I think they want the narrow body flying done cheaper, and unfortunately for APA, it will be at the expense of their pensions unless they decide that maybe AE flying 100 seaters isn't such a bad idea. i think you would see those still on the property turn on their furloughed brothers and sisters in a second to keep their pensions.

 

[Draginass]

You're right about the senior guys selling out furloughees.

As far as merging seniority lists with Eagle. Ok, if you're a flowthru, keep your AA number, if not . . . . the line starts behind the last guy on the AA furlough list. And if the current flowbacks are booted in 2007 . . . all EA guys can send in an app.

As far as letting AE onto the AA list, what's in it for AA pilots? Sounds like just an invitation for Arpey to pressure a dumbing-down the contract even worse than it is already. Heck, just get rid of Eagle, keep scope, and rent small jet service from the lowest cost provider. The service can't get any worse than it is now.

I doubt if you'll hear any talk from the company about pensions. They know that 700 Captains will drop paper at the very hint of pension "adjustments" .. . . . and rightly so.

 

[Flyby1206]

Heck, just get rid of Eagle, keep scope, and rent small jet service from the lowest cost provider. The service can't get any worse than it is now.

You have to draw a line somewhere. There are a lot worse regional carriers that could be doing the feeder service. If they get another regional to do feed for AA then scope clause has to go. There arent many regionals left out there without 90-seat a/c. Check this regional payscale for Mesa http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/mesa.html

If they can get guys flying 90-seaters for less than half of what you fly MD80s then whats the point of having you fly gas-guzzling-80s? Notice that this regional BS started with small 37 seat jets, then 44, then 50, 70, 90-100.... Your jobs will disappear if you dont do something about it.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

No to change the subject too much, but I still can't believe that the first year Mesa guys are flying the 90 seat regional jet for $21 an hour. That is an absolute joke! If only the flying public knew that the FO on their flight makes a whopping $18,000 a year.

 

[Flyby1206]

No to change the subject too much, but I still can't believe that the first year Mesa guys are flying the 90 seat regional jet for $21 an hour. That is an absolute joke! If only the flying public knew that the FO on their flight makes a whopping $18,000 a year.

Its really pathetic. 3 years ago this poster was put up in the DFW terminal,
http://www.geocities.com/av8trxx99/PilotPay18K.JPG
passengers would stop and stare and mgmt got pissed. It got us a payraise, so now instead of $18,400 we make $20,700 for 1st yr FOs. Whoopdie doo!