Is AA ever going to recall?

[WyoHerkdriver]

So soon? Actually, the way things are going, that is more believable than the October 2006 rumor.

 

[PHX767]

In response to the original query...

Is AA ever going to recall?

Answer: Yes. When? The 2009 answer is as good as any. This is if they survive the shrink to profitability.

PBS:

I was a participant in this at AWA. If you understood computers, read the tutorial, went to the classes, tried out the trial paralell bids, read the FAQ's and hints, and very carefully evaluated what you were asking for... it was fine. I got a line for the first time ever using it. However, this was because there was a large population of dinosaurs employed there at that time that did not even have email accounts, were not at ease with a computer, and did not go to the classes, take part in the trial runs, etc. After the swell of stupidity rolled back the other way, it went back to being about like always. It could not make a decent pairing, because those were detremined by the company.

AA pilots will hate it because as someone said earlier, it will eliminate the vacation conflict drop. In other words, they will not get paid for not being at work.

 

[AA717driver]

AA pilots will hate it because as someone said earlier, it will eliminate the vacation conflict drop. In other words, they will not get paid for not being at work.

You said it! The Green Book is insanely ineffecient relative to EVERY OTHER airline in the U.S. The days of getting paid $140k for working 68 hours a month have to end. (Actually, they have but it's the potential for the company to have to pay people to sit at home must go away for AA to be consistently profitable.) TC

 

[Gorilla]

Reserve pilots have to be paid to sit at home, as well as off the gate. That's their job. Strapping on a beeper and being sober and ready is a service provided to the company, and should be paid accordingly.

If an airline maxes out their reserves every month, by definition, they are undermanned, and cannot handle weather, holidays, and other phenomenon that stress the system.

Just guessing, but I'd say you need a 20% reserve pad. That means for a 75 hour contract, if the reserves average 60 hours in a normal month, that's about right. Yet they are guaranteed, at AA at least, 73+

 

[aa73]

Gorilla,

Some airlines staff more reserves, some less. I understand TWA staffed right at 10%, that's because of PBS and because pilots could pick up trips on their days off at premium pay. Which made reserve very senior over there. AA historically staffed reserves at 30%, which is a little high but we are limited to flying on duty days only. It also provides for more jobs, but costs the Co extra $$$. I think we will get it down to between 10-20% eventually, probably through PBS or some other work rule concession. We shall see...

73

 

[AA717driver]

AA's crew scheduling burns reserves like a Hummer burns gas. If a flight is going to be 10 minutes late going through a hub, they will dump the crew and call out reserves. They would dump crews off their pairings regardless of the fact that they could make the connection with no problem.

AA has the same problem TWA had in the early 90's--they do it this way because they've always done it this way and nothing has made them change. TWA was forced to become extremely effecient because of two events. The first was that Icahn was gone and with him went Wall St.--no more outside money. The second, and most important was the departure of most middle managers once they figured TWA was a sinking ship.

The departure of those managers left their "empires" undefended and the old, ingrained ineffeciencies they protected could be swept away. This allowed for unbridled effeciency on the part of those who remained.

One aspect of this was the large number of pilot retirements TWA experienced in that period which still allowed for some career progression even though fewer were required.

AA has not gone through the cataclysmic events that generally result in very effecient companies emerging from the ashes. The entrenched middle management emperors cannot be disloged and will not change willingly.

I don't look for PBS to be any help to AA--I think they could take cold fusion and make it ineffecient... AA will survive and be profitable in spite of its management, not because of it.TC

 

[Flyby1206]

I know that PBS was a bit hit for everyone who used it at TWA, but a lot of regional carriers have been getting it recently and the results werent as promising. There was a thread not long ago in the Regional section about it. I will try to search and find it.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=76658&highlight=PBS

 

[Gorilla]

AA's crew scheduling burns reserves like a Hummer burns gas. If a flight is going to be 10 minutes late going through a hub, they will dump the crew and call out reserves. They would dump crews off their pairings regardless of the fact that they could make the connection with no problem.

I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. I probably have a cumulative 6 to 8 years on reserve at AA, over several contracts. If there's one GIANT fault of AA CS, it's their tendency to have blinders on relative to the future. Their ONLY goal is to man that next open seat; they don't consider tomorrow. For example, they grab the last reserve guy for a Miami turn on Thursday, and completely ignore the fact that he's the ONLY guy to work a 4-day trip on Friday.

 

[AA717driver]

I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. I probably have a cumulative 6 to 8 years on reserve at AA, over several contracts. If there's one GIANT fault of AA CS, it's their tendency to have blinders on relative to the future. Their ONLY goal is to man that next open seat; they don't consider tomorrow. For example, they grab the last reserve guy for a Miami turn on Thursday, and completely ignore the fact that he's the ONLY guy to work a 4-day trip on Friday.

Gorilla--I agree with you on that issue. Most CS departments are run on chaos management mode most of the time but AA's seems to be even more chaotic than most. As long as a flight is covered by one scheduler, they don't consider the ramifications tomorrow because that will happen on someone else's shift.

There are clearly a lot of problems with AA CS. I think the empire-building will prevent anyone from changing it. TC

 

[Draginass]

There may be a moderate number of recalls only if Arpey starts making threats about taking the company to bankruptsy again. In that case any Captain that doesn't do a serious eval of this gain/loss equation monthly is nuts. AA pilots can take their pension as a lump sum.

 

[Flyby1206]

How are things looking with the recent announcements of all the parked md80s and 757s? I think its up to 27 MDs and 19 757s. Hopefully no more furloughs...

 

[Dangerkitty]

How are things looking with the recent announcements of all the parked md80s and 757s? I think its up to 27 MDs and 19 757s. Hopefully no more furloughs...

I highly doubt that anymore furloughs will occur. Right now the pilots are having to fly their a$$es off just to maintain the schedules. In most bases and equipment reserves are being maxed out every month.

If anything retiring these airframes will help maintain a more adequate schedule so that they can plan for contingencies. Just my guessing though.

 

[AA717driver]

I just found out the 27 MD80's are not parked permanently. They are on a 30 day "parked-to-fly" status. The -80's that are to be permanently grounded are the 24 that have been on the 30-day status but need AD work that makes to too expensive to do.

There are enough retirements that recalls will have to start in the fall or the summer schedule next year will have to be pared back significantly.

(The 757's are a non-issue. They were destined to be returned to the lessors at this time when the Ch. 11 was concluded.)TC

 

[labbats]

There are enough retirements that recalls will have to start in the fall or the summer schedule next year will have to be pared back significantly.

I think I heard that exact phrase in 2005, or was it 2004? I think it was both.

They don't have to recall ever. They find ingenious ways around it, like say... parking airplanes. Anyone who has had any time around AMR, which I'm sure you all have 10X more experience than me, know good and well that AMR will do whatever it wants.

 

[spacecadet1]

If the company gets productivity improvements (such as increased monthly max by 5 hrs), that means 5-10% less pilots needed. That's about 400-800 less pilots needed. The company also stated that it wasn't sure how the recent 757's being returned would affect staffing. I wouldn't rule out furloughs.