indy recall

[xwind]

would you accept a recall at indy or stay at current regional as a senior fo with less than 4 months to upgrade. i just want some opinions, thanks





i don't give two fcuks about my grammer

 

[Machdog1]

Is that a serious question. No stay an FO for the rest of your life!!!Dumb a@#$S!!

 

[Machdog1]

I am sorry

 

[pianoman]

1. Can you bypass recall for the time being and still keep a number later?

Either way, I would say wait the 4 months and upgrade if you are pretty sure about it. I don't see Indy pulling out of the spin. I wish it were otherwise, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[flyer172r]

Someone said most of the recalls are because there's a lot of attrition at Indy right now. Probably a good reason for all that. If it were me and I was fairly happy about the place I was currently at, plus being that close to upgrade, I'd probably stay. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[IHaveAPension]

You'd have to be a freaking moron to take a recall to Indy! I bet Mark Z. wishes he was still chief pilot at ABX!!!

 

[Jetlinkin]

xwind, are you at CoEX???

 

[CLE145CA]

xwind, are you at CoEX???

If he is a furloughed Indy pilot who is now a senior FO with four months to upgrade, then I would say he is NOT at XJT. I flew with a few furloughed Indy guys last year (Mar-Apr '04) after their first round of furloughs, but those would be the last people to be recalled. Those people are not within four months of holding captain from what I can see by my calculations. The most recent furloughs CERTAINLY wouldn't be close to upgrading at XJT.

 

[skyaddict]

Senior FO with 4 months to upgrade? Then it would be no brainer to bypass. If, OTOH, you are a commuting, junior FO with no upgrade in sight except via rumor (depending on day of the week and who you talk to) and no 2nd year pay bump, vs going back to Indy at 2.5x the pay and no commute, then it's not nearly as simple a decision. But given that for the life of me I don't see how T&K plan to get through the winter yet, I think I will have no choice but to bypass for now... but not a no brainer.

 

[Jetlinkin]

I know of someone who got furloughed from Expressjet after 9/11 went to ACA, got furloughed at ACA the same time he got recalled to Expressjet. If he is a "E" number than it is possible he will upgrading by October...thats about 4 Months.

 

[aa73]

If he is a furloughed Indy pilot who is now a senior FO with four months to upgrade, then I would say he is NOT at XJT. I flew with a few furloughed Indy guys last year (Mar-Apr '04) after their first round of furloughs, but those would be the last people to be recalled. Those people are not within four months of holding captain from what I can see by my calculations. The most recent furloughs CERTAINLY wouldn't be close to upgrading at XJT.

Just curious, what is the DOH of the junior CA at XJET these days?

 

[Jetlinkin]

First part of 2001

 

[uncle]

I was furloughed from ACA in May 03. Just got the letter. I've been with Comair for 1.5 yrs. I would appreciate some 'REAL & HONEST' input from a current Indy pilot on the future on Indy(upgrade rumors, plane delivery schedules...).

 

[Pilot877]

The best place to go for that kind of advice would be:www.aca-lounge.com

However, they are kind of pessimistic. But you wanted real, right?

 

[uncle]

Pilot877,
Thanks for the info. I've been out ot the Indy loop for a while and just want to make an informed decision. For now I'll take the bypass.

 

[Jetlinkin]

?

Pilot877,
Thanks for the info. I've been out ot the Indy loop for a while and just want to make an informed decision. For now I'll take the bypass.

I thought Comair made you resign your recall rights!

 

[PropsR4Boats]

Not at EXJET. I guess X-Wind is at Colgan or CommuteAir! Chuck (Colgan) called me himself to tell me I'd upgrade in about 9 months from my start date! That was in Feb '05. That would have made my "upgrade" about 4 months from now. I didn't take him up on the offer.

 

[Pilot877]

I thought Comair made you resign your recall rights!

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what Comair makes you do to get hired, you still get the opportunity for recall.

 

[uncle]

If you had recall rights, Comair wanted a letter of resignation for those recall rights. Comair would keep a copy and forward the original to ACA(in my case). They never asked for it and I wasn't going to offer it.

 

[skyaddict]

Rationally, there is not much to go by for hoping that Indy will eventually work out. However, while there has been a stampede of many displaced and even non-displaced Captains to the tune of one a day for fear of losing out on seniority elsewhere, there are also many holdouts. Almost every time I jumpseat, during my commutes out of Dulles, I check on the latest buzz. I have found that some of those who used to be the most cynical now are convinced that Indy will make it after all. Loads keep increasing, and the number of low CASM Airbusses to feed to and from keeps increasing. But I'm afraid that even with the attrition seniority escalator in full gear for us furloughees, that if I went back I'd get furloughed a second time. Part of me would still tempted (if the recalls went deep enough) to go back hang out and double my pay though.

 

[Always deferred]

I was furloughed from ACA in May 03. Just got the letter. I've been with Comair for 1.5 yrs. I would appreciate some 'REAL & HONEST' input from a current Indy pilot on the future on Indy(upgrade rumors, plane delivery schedules...).

Just out of curiousity,

if you've been at CMR 1.5 years, how do you still have eligibility to return to FLYi? Weren't you required to resign your seniority?

 

[uncle]

If you had recall rights, Comair wanted a letter of resignation for those recall rights. Comair would keep a copy and forward the original to ACA(in my case). They never asked for it and I wasn't going to offer it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rationally, there is not much to go by for hoping that Indy will eventually work out. However, while there has been a stampede of many displaced and even non-displaced Captains to the tune of one a day for fear of losing out on seniority elsewhere, there are also many holdouts. Almost every time I jumpseat, during my commutes out of Dulles, I check on the latest buzz. I have found that some of those who used to be the most cynical now are convinced that Indy will make it after all. Loads keep increasing, and the number of low CASM Airbusses to feed to and from keeps increasing. But I'm afraid that even with the attrition seniority escalator in full gear for us furloughees, that if I went back I'd get furloughed a second time. Part of me would still tempted (if the recalls went deep enough) to go back hang out and double my pay though.

Replace Indy with Midway, Dulles with RDU and Airbus with Boeing. The question is.... who is Indy going to do feeder service for?

Thank you for flying ( insert your favorite mainline feeder name) operated by Indepedence Air!

(disgruntled senior Indy Air pilot; 'yeah I flew the Airbus once')

 

[skyaddict]

With most of us bypassing, I wonder if they will rotate back around to us quickly, in which case it will be sh*t or get off the pot time. In that case, barring an upgrade class in hand, I am gonna stay on the pot.

 

[Truckdriver]

Just curious, what is the DOH of the junior CA at XJET these days?

CLE 8/21/2000 #1329
IAH 12/4/2000 #1470
EWR 2/5/2001 #1579

2570 total pilots on the list and they have been adding about 48 per month. It's probably around 2650 now. About 20-30 leaving per month to CAL until spring 06. #1819 on the list is the last guy who was furloughed so by spring 06 guys hired in 2/2004 will be holding CA. If CAL will continue to take guys via the preferential interview stuff, then I would expect to see 3-4 year upgrades at XJT. CAL just announced they are hiring 80 per month and anticipates adding around 1300 pilots in the next 3 years. If CAL takes more XJT guys, then you may once again see 2 year upgrades at XJT. My guess is that oil goes to $70 bbl and CAL files CH11. They then cut capacity, furlough around 800 pilots, and upgrades at XJT will stand at around 6 years.

 

[nimtz]

If CAL takes more XJT guys, then you may once again see 2 year upgrades at XJT.

Man that's good stuff. I haven't laughed that hard for quite a while. Of course that assumes enough XJT guys are willing to take what is apparently the ultimate career risk by going to CAL. After all why would a bunch of guys in their early 30's want to give up their lucrative seats in the left seat of the Jungle Jets.

 

[Truckdriver]

Of course that assumes enough XJT guys are willing to take what is apparently the ultimate career risk by going to CAL. After all why would a bunch of guys in their early 30's want to give up their lucrative seats in the left seat of the Jungle Jets.

Going to CAL may be the ultimate career risk, but staying at XJT is career suicide. I hope every pilot at XJT that is senior to me thinks it's better to stay at XJT because that means I get to CAL faster.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Amen, Brotha! I can't see myself having a viable 35 year career (30 more to go) at a shell corporation with no assets whose future is completely determined by another company. But CAL has like scabs, or something, so everyone hired at XJT before 6/00 please stay!

 

[tarp]

Independence

(But first a word for Uncle - sooner or later you will have to "burn a bridge" - you think you have conquered the world because you are holding ACA/Indy as a trump card - but what would happen if you suddenly decided through some warped decision-making process that you were going back to FLYi.....So what do you think Comair is going to do about you. Do you think you EVER have a chance of getting a job at Comair again? Delta owns Comair? Do you think they will look in the records? Good luck to you in continuing as a fine professional pilot.)

On the other hand, your decision making and everyone else's is simple.

Just ask yourself - what will it take for Indy to survive?

They need:

1.) A break on the price of fuel oil
2.) Higher revenues from passengers
3.) Less expenses while running the airline.

So let's take #1 - do you have a crystal ball? I've been driving 50 miles of Interstate every day to my non-aviation job - there are MORE Americans on the road this summer than I can ever recall - I've seen about three of those Prius hybrids. Answer - we are burning fuel at $3/gal just like it was $1.50/gal - folks have not stopped or curtailed use (including me) - I STILL have to get to work and I have no transportation alternative.

#2 - How is Indy going to make those $29 fares creep up to $49 or $59 or $69 or anywhere where the seat actually pays for itself to get in the air? I've been watching. Ten days ago Airtran announced a huge fare sale - two days after Independence announced their Independence Day Sale. Indy keeps telling us that they only sell "a few" seats at the sale price but they also say that they would rather fly a full plane at $29 seats than a half empty one - considering #1 above this logic escapes me - but anyway. A fifty seat airplane has at least 10 seats at $29 and probably has 10 seats at $129 (last minute, no discount, one way fare). That means every other seat is between $29 and $129. Do the math - at what average seat price do we actually make money - $50, $60, $70? (And do this math at $60/bll oil prices or $1.80/gal for JetA) There is no way at 79.9% Load Factor (hmmm, that's just enough to take out those ten $129 seats!) that we are paying the bills to operate the CRJ's.

#2 has a part "b". 2b states after one year of offering the "lowest prices", what would you say is our customer base? Do we have "loyal" customers or do we have bargain basement shopping type customers? If we raised the prices 15% to cash in on our "superior" tender loving service, would the customers follow us because just like all the Daily Briefing hype, they "love" us? Or, do you think our customers would run to all the other web sites and still keep looking for the "lowest price". Yeah, that's what I think too!

So now comes #3 - cutting expenses. Ask yourself - what's left? We are saving paper, saving fuel, dumpster diving for used parts (inside Indy joke - just ignore), we have cut staff to the bone, sold parts inventory, contracted stuff out and negotiated the cheapest hotels possible. So what's left? What can company cut from expenses and survive? I know - how about salaries - yeah to start with Indy pilots are making about 10-20% more per position than all the other Regionals in RJ's. (Ignore the fact that we have 5 to 17 year veterans flying those airplanes and the other guys have new hires in the right seat.) The simple fact is - when a Mesa CRJ goes up in the air, they pay XX for the flight crew. When an Indy CRJ goes up in the air, they pay XXPLUS 15-20%. Chautauqua, TSA, Skywest - you name the company other than Comair and we pay more to the "people" that operate our CRJ's than most. (BTW, this is usually because of our Seniority - a 15yr. veteran in the left seat and an 8 yr veteran in the right seat - yikes - 8 years in flying and back to right seat of a CRJ!)

So I ask again - how can FLYi cut expenses to save money they are not getting in income from the passengers? If you don't think they are coming to us (the pilots) for wage concessions and outright threats of disbanding the union, you haven't seen desperate airline executives yet. Yes, they are still holding an "ace" in the deck and it's your salary - get ready.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1.) A break on the price of fuel oil
2.) Higher revenues from passengers
3.) Less expenses while running the airline..

4. ) A management team that sticks to the culture they promote. Walk it, not talk it. The big deal? Productivity and integrity, key elements for competitivness in the New Airline Industry.