indy recall

[Always deferred]

I was furloughed from ACA in May 03. Just got the letter. I've been with Comair for 1.5 yrs. I would appreciate some 'REAL & HONEST' input from a current Indy pilot on the future on Indy(upgrade rumors, plane delivery schedules...).

Just out of curiousity,

if you've been at CMR 1.5 years, how do you still have eligibility to return to FLYi? Weren't you required to resign your seniority?

 

[uncle]

If you had recall rights, Comair wanted a letter of resignation for those recall rights. Comair would keep a copy and forward the original to ACA(in my case). They never asked for it and I wasn't going to offer it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rationally, there is not much to go by for hoping that Indy will eventually work out. However, while there has been a stampede of many displaced and even non-displaced Captains to the tune of one a day for fear of losing out on seniority elsewhere, there are also many holdouts. Almost every time I jumpseat, during my commutes out of Dulles, I check on the latest buzz. I have found that some of those who used to be the most cynical now are convinced that Indy will make it after all. Loads keep increasing, and the number of low CASM Airbusses to feed to and from keeps increasing. But I'm afraid that even with the attrition seniority escalator in full gear for us furloughees, that if I went back I'd get furloughed a second time. Part of me would still tempted (if the recalls went deep enough) to go back hang out and double my pay though.

Replace Indy with Midway, Dulles with RDU and Airbus with Boeing. The question is.... who is Indy going to do feeder service for?

Thank you for flying ( insert your favorite mainline feeder name) operated by Indepedence Air!

(disgruntled senior Indy Air pilot; 'yeah I flew the Airbus once')

 

[skyaddict]

With most of us bypassing, I wonder if they will rotate back around to us quickly, in which case it will be sh*t or get off the pot time. In that case, barring an upgrade class in hand, I am gonna stay on the pot.

 

[Truckdriver]

Just curious, what is the DOH of the junior CA at XJET these days?

CLE 8/21/2000 #1329
IAH 12/4/2000 #1470
EWR 2/5/2001 #1579

2570 total pilots on the list and they have been adding about 48 per month. It's probably around 2650 now. About 20-30 leaving per month to CAL until spring 06. #1819 on the list is the last guy who was furloughed so by spring 06 guys hired in 2/2004 will be holding CA. If CAL will continue to take guys via the preferential interview stuff, then I would expect to see 3-4 year upgrades at XJT. CAL just announced they are hiring 80 per month and anticipates adding around 1300 pilots in the next 3 years. If CAL takes more XJT guys, then you may once again see 2 year upgrades at XJT. My guess is that oil goes to $70 bbl and CAL files CH11. They then cut capacity, furlough around 800 pilots, and upgrades at XJT will stand at around 6 years.

 

[nimtz]

If CAL takes more XJT guys, then you may once again see 2 year upgrades at XJT.

Man that's good stuff. I haven't laughed that hard for quite a while. Of course that assumes enough XJT guys are willing to take what is apparently the ultimate career risk by going to CAL. After all why would a bunch of guys in their early 30's want to give up their lucrative seats in the left seat of the Jungle Jets.

 

[Truckdriver]

Of course that assumes enough XJT guys are willing to take what is apparently the ultimate career risk by going to CAL. After all why would a bunch of guys in their early 30's want to give up their lucrative seats in the left seat of the Jungle Jets.

Going to CAL may be the ultimate career risk, but staying at XJT is career suicide. I hope every pilot at XJT that is senior to me thinks it's better to stay at XJT because that means I get to CAL faster.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Amen, Brotha! I can't see myself having a viable 35 year career (30 more to go) at a shell corporation with no assets whose future is completely determined by another company. But CAL has like scabs, or something, so everyone hired at XJT before 6/00 please stay!

 

[tarp]

Independence

(But first a word for Uncle - sooner or later you will have to "burn a bridge" - you think you have conquered the world because you are holding ACA/Indy as a trump card - but what would happen if you suddenly decided through some warped decision-making process that you were going back to FLYi.....So what do you think Comair is going to do about you. Do you think you EVER have a chance of getting a job at Comair again? Delta owns Comair? Do you think they will look in the records? Good luck to you in continuing as a fine professional pilot.)

On the other hand, your decision making and everyone else's is simple.

Just ask yourself - what will it take for Indy to survive?

They need:

1.) A break on the price of fuel oil
2.) Higher revenues from passengers
3.) Less expenses while running the airline.

So let's take #1 - do you have a crystal ball? I've been driving 50 miles of Interstate every day to my non-aviation job - there are MORE Americans on the road this summer than I can ever recall - I've seen about three of those Prius hybrids. Answer - we are burning fuel at $3/gal just like it was $1.50/gal - folks have not stopped or curtailed use (including me) - I STILL have to get to work and I have no transportation alternative.

#2 - How is Indy going to make those $29 fares creep up to $49 or $59 or $69 or anywhere where the seat actually pays for itself to get in the air? I've been watching. Ten days ago Airtran announced a huge fare sale - two days after Independence announced their Independence Day Sale. Indy keeps telling us that they only sell "a few" seats at the sale price but they also say that they would rather fly a full plane at $29 seats than a half empty one - considering #1 above this logic escapes me - but anyway. A fifty seat airplane has at least 10 seats at $29 and probably has 10 seats at $129 (last minute, no discount, one way fare). That means every other seat is between $29 and $129. Do the math - at what average seat price do we actually make money - $50, $60, $70? (And do this math at $60/bll oil prices or $1.80/gal for JetA) There is no way at 79.9% Load Factor (hmmm, that's just enough to take out those ten $129 seats!) that we are paying the bills to operate the CRJ's.

#2 has a part "b". 2b states after one year of offering the "lowest prices", what would you say is our customer base? Do we have "loyal" customers or do we have bargain basement shopping type customers? If we raised the prices 15% to cash in on our "superior" tender loving service, would the customers follow us because just like all the Daily Briefing hype, they "love" us? Or, do you think our customers would run to all the other web sites and still keep looking for the "lowest price". Yeah, that's what I think too!

So now comes #3 - cutting expenses. Ask yourself - what's left? We are saving paper, saving fuel, dumpster diving for used parts (inside Indy joke - just ignore), we have cut staff to the bone, sold parts inventory, contracted stuff out and negotiated the cheapest hotels possible. So what's left? What can company cut from expenses and survive? I know - how about salaries - yeah to start with Indy pilots are making about 10-20% more per position than all the other Regionals in RJ's. (Ignore the fact that we have 5 to 17 year veterans flying those airplanes and the other guys have new hires in the right seat.) The simple fact is - when a Mesa CRJ goes up in the air, they pay XX for the flight crew. When an Indy CRJ goes up in the air, they pay XXPLUS 15-20%. Chautauqua, TSA, Skywest - you name the company other than Comair and we pay more to the "people" that operate our CRJ's than most. (BTW, this is usually because of our Seniority - a 15yr. veteran in the left seat and an 8 yr veteran in the right seat - yikes - 8 years in flying and back to right seat of a CRJ!)

So I ask again - how can FLYi cut expenses to save money they are not getting in income from the passengers? If you don't think they are coming to us (the pilots) for wage concessions and outright threats of disbanding the union, you haven't seen desperate airline executives yet. Yes, they are still holding an "ace" in the deck and it's your salary - get ready.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

1.) A break on the price of fuel oil
2.) Higher revenues from passengers
3.) Less expenses while running the airline..

4. ) A management team that sticks to the culture they promote. Walk it, not talk it. The big deal? Productivity and integrity, key elements for competitivness in the New Airline Industry.

 

[AZ Typed]

Replace Indy with Midway, Dulles with RDU and Airbus with Boeing. The question is.... who is Indy going to do feeder service for?

Thank you for flying ( insert your favorite mainline feeder name) operated by Indepedence Air!

(disgruntled senior Indy Air pilot; 'yeah I flew the Airbus once')

I haven't read anywhere on this board where anybody asked you either way. So if you don't mind, shut it.

AZT

 

[FrenchTickler]

You'd have to be a freaking moron to take a recall to Indy!

Go back to Indy!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I haven't read anywhere on this board where anybody asked you either way. So if you don't mind, shut it.

AZT

A bit sensitive? You'll get over it....... in time. We all have.

 

[SloDoDriver]

I am bypassing...If you are already at Comair stay.............or ASA ....or Pinnacle....or Chatsquate......my opinion.
If you weren't current I would take the recall, but otherwise....

 

[Indy319FA]

Supposedly they are saying we are going to recall 50 for attrition and they only expect 10% of those on furlough to return. Rumor mill says another 50 will be recalled in August or September because we will be sending 40 FOs and 40 CAs to training for the 8 Airbuses that will arrive during the 1Q of 2006 ( 2 in Dec, 2 in Jan, 2 in Feb, 2 in Mar). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the 10% figure holds they will have to go through the entire list to get the first 50, and even those that bypass will have to "sh!t or get off the pot" (as somebody stated earlier) by September.

Unfortunately we won't really have an idea if Indy is going to make it until after the 3Q figures are released, which will likely be after the second 50 are recalled. BB was in the crew room last week and said we did not meet the cash requirements in June for GE to prevent them from taking 8 more CRJs, so these will likely be leaving the fleet in November (basically its up to GE to decide to take them and the company expects them to). So after this we will have a fleet mix of 20 319s and 50 CRJs by March 2006.

KS and the boys in the crystal palace are saying we are close to breakeven and will be profitable early next year. This is hard to believe with the price of oil right now. Supposedly we will have 50 million in cash by December.

We are short on CAs, FOs, and FAs. People are leaving in droves for jetBlue, Air Tran, and Southwest. Pilots are also going to FedEx, UPS, corporate, fractionals, and other freight companies. Right now we are losing 1 pilot a day (or 30 a month). We lost 60 FAs in May when TOWOP expired.

You folks on furlough are going to have a tough decision sometime in the fall. Hope to see you back at Indy, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[SYX328]

It is not going to be long for Indy to put the "For Sale" sign up. Or start raising the base fares above 29 o/w. Anyways they are slowly becoming the new Wal*Mart of the skies, slowly following behind WN. KS should never left the fee for departure world to go on his own. I worked at ACA for almost 5 years and actually enjoyed leaving the company.

 

[House_X]

Supposedly they are saying we are going to recall 50 for attrition and they only expect 10% of those on furlough to return. Rumor mill says another 50 will be recalled in August or September because we will be sending 40 FOs and 40 CAs to training for the 8 Airbuses that will arrive during the 1Q of 2006 ( 2 in Dec, 2 in Jan, 2 in Feb, 2 in Mar). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the 10% figure holds they will have to go through the entire list to get the first 50, and even those that bypass will have to "sh!t or get off the pot" (as somebody stated earlier) by September.

Unfortunately we won't really have an idea if Indy is going to make it until after the 3Q figures are released, which will likely be after the second 50 are recalled. BB was in the crew room last week and said we did not meet the cash requirements in June for GE to prevent them from taking 8 more CRJs, so these will likely be leaving the fleet in November (basically its up to GE to decide to take them and the company expects them to). So after this we will have a fleet mix of 20 319s and 50 CRJs by March 2006.

KS and the boys in the crystal palace are saying we are close to breakeven and will be profitable early next year. This is hard to believe with the price of oil right now. Supposedly we will have 50 million in cash by December.

We are short on CAs, FOs, and FAs. People are leaving in droves for jetBlue, Air Tran, and Southwest. Pilots are also going to FedEx, UPS, corporate, fractionals, and other freight companies. Right now we are losing 1 pilot a day (or 30 a month). We lost 60 FAs in May when TOWOP expired.

You folks on furlough are going to have a tough decision sometime in the fall. Hope to see you back at Indy, but I'm not holding my breath.

Why???...because your lickin' yer chops to get in the right seat of an RJ? "$#!t or get off the pot" ???? You can have my right seat...knowing how things are going, you'll be furloughed the day you start ground school. Maybe you should quit your FA job and build your flight time up...

 

[skyaddict]

Many FO's (anyone without the requisite wad of turbine PIC) now have crappy right seat jobs at companies with **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty contracts, or even if at good companies, perhaps no chance of an upgrade until hell freezes over (though things change fast for better or for worse- see my comment below). In that sense, getting an instant, huge pay raise the first day of refresher training, even if it means another furlough soon, isn't that draconian. It certainly seems *very* possible that Indy will fail with these oil prices, but this is the airline industry, and you never, ever, really know what the situation will be a year from now for the company if the alternative is rotting in another right seat at $20K a year.

 

[SloDoDriver]

It is a fairly easy decision...either you take it or you don't....If I needed jet currency I would take it....If it works, then someday you might be flying an Airbus if not then back to unemployment.............

 

[GoJetPilot]

Come on over to Go Jets.....We are hiring a lot of professional pilots

QOL will be a lot better than all the other mickey mouse regionals