Inappropriate comments about RJ crash?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am in the TIS and Tony C camp.

There is a time to be laid back and there is a time to be professional. When we come to work we dump the radical sunglasses, Jagermeister ID lanyards and pop culture slang.

Don't think how you, a fellow pilot percieves the excessive dudes in the CVR transcript, rather think about how the public will. The ones you want to trust you with thier well being on your jet.

Image and behavior are our professional indicators to the public. Normally they don't get to see how we act and behave behind the cockpit door. Now they do.

It is rogue behavior and it is effecting all of us.

(Darker Shades of Blue; The Rogue Pilot, by Tony Kern)

 

[TIS]

And TIS, you are anything but "Succinct". Wait a minute...I guess I missed the point about that too.

I think you should change your signature to read, "I AM a cartoon."

Grow up!

 

[FL000]

Why? Have I said anything wrong? Or maybe I wasn't sensitive enough for you?

TIS...that comment came from someone who has an Anarchy symbol as her avatar. A real tough girl...a rebel. Of course she's going to run to the defense of someone who ignores warning signs.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Going back a couple of pages to one of TIS's posts where he refers to Captain Rhodes past performances as it related to attitude, etc...and how it translates to this accident. He refers to the CVR transcript and "INT-1" as "Captain Rhodes' interphone". But were not the pilots in opposite seats throughout most of the event=? It was not until very late that they switched back.

While there has been much mention of the seat-swapping, and in the text of the factual that contains the CVR transcript, the group mentions the fact of the voices from RDO and INT 1-2 changing...the posts here (and in other threads) seem to just follow the convention that anything on the transcript from "1" is Rhodes and anything from "2" is Cesarz when for most of the event, it is just the opposite.

 

[Wasted]

Going back a couple of pages to one of TIS's posts where he refers to Captain Rhodes past performances as it related to attitude, etc...and how it translates to this accident. He refers to the CVR transcript and "INT-1" as "Captain Rhodes' interphone". But were not the pilots in opposite seats throughout most of the event=? It was not until very late that they switched back.

While there has been much mention of the seat-swapping, and in the text of the factual that contains the CVR transcript, the group mentions the fact of the voices from RDO and INT 1-2 changing...the posts here (and in other threads) seem to just follow the convention that anything on the transcript from "1" is Rhodes and anything from "2" is Cesarz when for most of the event, it is just the opposite.

The legend of the CVR transcript indicates "-1" as "voice identified as the Captain" and "-2" as "voice identified as the First Officer"

 

[Yank McCobb]

Thanks. I read the part about the voices at the positions changing, but just assumed (bad idea always) that the -1 and -2 convention was like it usually is...related to a particular mic and not the voice associated with it.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

How many times did I say "dude" in my interview? Oh, I don't remember, it was a long time ago...probably a dozen or more times.


And TIS, you are anything but "Succinct". Wait a minute...I guess I missed the point about that too.

Later, dudes....

You are the cartoon!
PBR

 

[TonyC]

While there has been much mention of the seat-swapping, and in the text of the factual that contains the CVR transcript, the group mentions the fact of the voices from RDO and INT 1-2 changing...the posts here (and in other threads) seem to just follow the convention that anything on the transcript from "1" is Rhodes and anything from "2" is Cesarz when for most of the event, it is just the opposite.

Well, the answer lies in the legend of the transcript itself.

[font=Arial,Bold]

CAM [/font]Cockpit area microphone voice or sound source

​

​

[font=Arial,Bold]INT [/font]Flight crew audio panel intercom voice or sound source

[font=Arial,Bold]CAS [/font]Aircraft.s crew alert system mechanical voice sound source
​

[font=Arial,Bold]RDO [/font]Radio transmissions from N8396A

[font=Arial,Bold]CTR-A [/font]Radio transmission from first Kansas City center controller (R29 position)§

[font=Arial,Bold]CTR-B [/font]Radio transmission from second Kansas City center controller (R30 position)

[font=Arial,Bold]CTR-C [/font]Radio transmission from third Kansas City center controller (R53 position)

[font=Arial,Bold]-1 [/font]Voice identified as the Captain

[font=Arial,Bold]-2 [/font]Voice identified as the First Officer

[font=Arial,Bold]-? [/font]Voice unidentified

[font=Arial,Bold]* [/font]Unintelligible word

[font=Arial,Bold]# [/font]Expletive

[font=Arial,Bold]. [/font]Pause or interruption

[font=Arial,Bold]( ) [/font]Questionable insertion

[font=Arial,Bold][ ] [/font]Editorial insertion

"INT" means "Flight crew audio panel intercom voice or sound source" and "-1" means "Voice identified as the Captain". The numbers have nothing to do with which interphone panel was used.


Correlation of the FDR, which records which microphone is keyed, with the CVR and ATC tapes confirms that for the portion of the flight between about 25,000 feet on the way up and about 11,000 feet on the way down, when the left microphone was keyed, the FO was talking, and when the right microphone was keyed, the Captain's voice was heard.


But for the CVR transcript, -1 always refers to the Captain, and -2 to the FO.






EDIT - - Guess I shoulda scrolled down a coupla posts before I answered, huh? My bad.






.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Sorry, but I'm not buyin' this AT ALL! When I was hired at my first commuter part of the reason was that I has listed over 35 people at the company that I knew on the app - most of them really good friends of mine.

The first line trip I flew was with a guy that, on one fine spring day, I went to the local glider field and began taking flying lessons with. We figured that we had enough lawns to mow to sponsor the habit. We were fourteen at the time and had known each other since were were eight. Never once did I hear the word dude, or "mega" or "rad' or any other youthfully colloquial yet meaningless term.

In actuality the opposite was true. He sat me down and told me that because we knew each other we had to be doubly careful not to fall into the trap of being too familiar. He told me that we had a job that required our best attention and that our familiarity with each other would help with knowing what was probably coming next but that we still had to work as a crew doing things the way the company wanted them done.

We were both 25 then.

Yeah, it's a different generation alright. And it' a different attitude. Everyone's always in a hurry. It's a different attitude and there's more form than substance enough of the time to be concerned. You can see some of it in the Captain's history.


But in this case my prejudice would have been correct, right? Their use of the term is interlaced throughout the entirety of the CVR transcript right up to the crash. "aw #. we're gonna hit houses dude." That was the last human voice heard on the CVR.

So it's a speech pattern. Fine. FIX IT!


This isn't a diversity training career. This is professional aviation. If you can't sound any more mature than a 17 year old on excessive hormones you shouldn't be in the cockpit of an airliner. I'll bet you that "dude' is not considered standard intra-cockpit terminology at any airline. That makes it non-essential banter and subject to ban under sterile cockpit rules. We'll see if they make any reference to it in the final report. I'll bet you it's there.


Do you let them bring it into the cockpit? I thought not.

TIS

So, from what I gather from everything you just wrote here, particularly what I put in bold print, the real problem behind this accident is the younger generation and what you think is a careless and immature attitude about flying airplanes because they say the word "dude" in the cockpit.

Okay....so tell me, TIS, what are your thoughts behind the crash of Delta 1141 at DFW airport back in August of 1988 that killed 12? It was a revenue flight...and those pilots were both quite seasoned (PIC was 48 with several thousand more hours than you have). If I recall they were discussing the dating habits of flight attendants as they were taxiing out? Even went as far as to discuss how bad it would be if they were to crash and their CVR made public? In the midst of it all they forgot to extend the slats and, as we all could guess, a 727 isn't going to get off the ground without them.

I'll agree with certain things you've said here, as you seem very knowledgable on the subject. Blaming it on the "attitudes" of the younger generation though just doesn't hold up historically.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I'll probably catch hell for saying it, but while reading the transcript, all I could think was "they're either drunk or high." Who else would be laughing so much when in so much obvious trouble?