Inappropriate comments about RJ crash?

[SkyBoy1981]

TIS, nice long rant you made there....but most of it is hardly relevant to what I said at all. My point was very simple, I think ALL of us would sound pretty silly on a CVR at times...especially when flying with a friend or someone we know well. "Dude" is a word used by us members of the younger generation (and older at times) on a pretty frequent basis when conversing with those whom we know well and feel comfortable around. THAT alone does not make someone unprofessional or immature. Their vocabulary has nothing to do with this crash, and poking fun of those guys for it as Tony was doing is arrogant and pointless. Like I said in my first post (which you obviously didn't read), these guys did some REALLY stupid things that night..I'm not denying that nor am I trying to defend their actions....but stereotyping someone for saying "dude" a lot is a bit ridiculous. If folks are going to criticize them, then find a more constructive way to do it. That was my point in a nutshell.

 

[EatSleepFly]

The only physiological factor that links night and hypoxia is vision.

Thank you. As I was reading this, I was wondering when (hoping) someone was finally going to point that out.

 

[TIS]

TIS, nice long rant you made there....but most of it is hardly relevant to what I said at all. My point was very simple, I think ALL of us would sound pretty silly on a CVR at times...especially when flying with a friend or someone we know well.

Ayuh, I saw where you wrote that but that certainly wasn't the point of the post I quoted.

"Dude" is a word used by us members of the younger generation (and older at times) on a pretty frequent basis when conversing with those whom we know well and feel comfortable around.

Not in the planes I fly it isn't. It's not like I'm putting a fire hose to it or anything it's just that we don't sound like a bunch of teenagers experimenting with our first joint during normal operations, let alone during an emergncy.

THAT alone does not make someone unprofessional or immature.

Agreed - and I alluded to that but in doing so I said that a chord is struck when I hear that coming from anyone who gets near my airplane. The have to prove to me that they're paying the kind of attention they ought to be after I hear THAT word every other word. I've had them try to drive off with the grounding lead for the fuel truck still attached. I've had them leave my nosewheel steering disconnected. I've had them try to turn me the wrong way out of parking. After a while you just get to know what to expect. If they prove me wrong so much the better!

Their vocabulary has nothing to do with this crash, and poking fun of those guys for it as Tony was doing is arrogant and pointless.

Vocabulary? No. You're correct. Attitude? Yes, attitude absolutely had everything to do with this crash. It's not an attitude that started when the first start valve opened on that flight. It started many years before - 1991 I believe. When that captain got up out of his seat, even as his airplane struggled and wallowed pitifullly, to get a soda, "dude" showed what those four stripes were there for alright.

And Tony wasn't poking fun. Tony was expressing frustration and now, so am I. Now, Tony may well be arrogant but calling him that in this case for saying what he said, which is dead on by the way, is just plain ignorant.

Like I said in my first post (which you obviously didn't read), these guys did some REALLY stupid things that night..I'm not denying that nor am I trying to defend their actions....but stereotyping someone for saying "dude" a lot is a bit ridiculous. If folks are going to criticize them, then find a more constructive way to do it. That was my point in a nutshell.

And MY point, in a nutshell, is if you want to be a professional pilot one of the rules is that you don't cut a CVR that has you sounding like Spicoli - it's NOT professional behavior. If you want to be a professional pilot, learn to talk like one. If you want to be a captain on a passenger jet, learn to ACT like one.

TIS

 

[Lear70]

TIS, it's just a younger generation.

I can comfortably say that looking at your flight experience and ratings, knowing that 11k with several different HS and Gulfstream ratings took you probably the better part of 20 years AFTER you first got into a jet, making you somewhere north of 40.

Both of these guys were Florida boys, knew each other for several years prior to the event, and obviously were more comfortable with each other than has been made evident. The culture here at Pinnacle, ESPECIALLY in the DTW pilots, is one of camraderie and enjoyment of work, more so in ops and alone in the cockpit than in front of passengers.

Do I believe the crew conducted themselves properly? Of course not. Do I believe the repeated use of the word "dude" AUTOMATICALLY equates to an attitude that contributes to a lack of safety? Absolutely NOT. In your area of aviation, that speech pattern is automatically dispariaged and viewed as some sign of immaturity (as evidenced in your post where someone using that word "must prove" themselves somehow); in others, it's seen as nothing more than a "cultural or generational difference".

Some of our best up-and-coming First Officers use that term quite a bit with their friends and buddies here at work; instead of judging them on that, I wait to see their performance when they're actually conducting their flight duties before I make any "judgments".

 

[TIS]

I can comfortably say that looking at your flight experience and ratings, knowing that 11k with several different HS and Gulfstream ratings took you probably the better part of 20 years AFTER you first got into a jet, making you somewhere north of 40.

41

Both of these guys were Florida boys, knew each other for several years prior to the event, and obviously were more comfortable with each other than has been made evident. The culture here at Pinnacle, ESPECIALLY in the DTW pilots, is one of camraderie and enjoyment of work, more so in ops and alone in the cockpit than in front of passengers.

Sorry, but I'm not buyin' this AT ALL! When I was hired at my first commuter part of the reason was that I has listed over 35 people at the company that I knew on the app - most of them really good friends of mine.

The first line trip I flew was with a guy that, on one fine spring day, I went to the local glider field and began taking flying lessons with. We figured that we had enough lawns to mow to sponsor the habit. We were fourteen at the time and had known each other since were were eight. Never once did I hear the word dude, or "mega" or "rad' or any other youthfully colloquial yet meaningless term.

In actuality the opposite was true. He sat me down and told me that because we knew each other we had to be doubly careful not to fall into the trap of being too familiar. He told me that we had a job that required our best attention and that our familiarity with each other would help with knowing what was probably coming next but that we still had to work as a crew doing things the way the company wanted them done.

We were both 25 then.

Yeah, it's a different generation alright. And it' a different attitude. Everyone's always in a hurry. It's a different attitude and there's more form than substance enough of the time to be concerned. You can see some of it in the Captain's history.

Do I believe the repeated use of the word "dude" AUTOMATICALLY equates to an attitude that contributes to a lack of safety? Absolutely NOT.

But in this case my prejudice would have been correct, right? Their use of the term is interlaced throughout the entirety of the CVR transcript right up to the crash. "aw #. we're gonna hit houses dude." That was the last human voice heard on the CVR.

So it's a speech pattern. Fine. FIX IT!

In your area of aviation, that speech pattern is automatically dispariaged and viewed as some sign of immaturity (as evidenced in your post where someone using that word "must prove" themselves somehow); in others, it's seen as nothing more than a "cultural or generational difference".

This isn't a diversity training career. This is professional aviation. If you can't sound any more mature than a 17 year old on excessive hormones you shouldn't be in the cockpit of an airliner. I'll bet you that "dude' is not considered standard intra-cockpit terminology at any airline. That makes it non-essential banter and subject to ban under sterile cockpit rules. We'll see if they make any reference to it in the final report. I'll bet you it's there.

Some of our best up-and-coming First Officers use that term quite a bit with their friends and buddies here at work; instead of judging them on that, I wait to see their performance when they're actually conducting their flight duties before I make any "judgments".

Do you let them bring it into the cockpit? I thought not.

TIS

 

[BE99chick]

You have a better explanation, sis?



No, bro, I don't.

I'm just reminded of the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

I guess I won't ever call anybody "dude" again...the speech police might fine me.

 

[TIS]

I'm just reminded of the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

Now ya see, this is the wrong idea altogether - not that you care what I think. This accident didn't happen because a control was misrigged, or because of some other freak thing specific to this flight occurred. It happened because the crew didn't pay enough attention to what they were doing and because they lacked the background to be alarmed at what they did manage to catch along the way.

That phrase you quoted is for those who throw their hands up in resignation, firm in their belief that some things are beyond their control. Learning about high altitude aeordynamics was WELL within THEIR control and they didn't do it. Worse, no one helped them with it as a matter of course either.

I guess I won't ever call anybody "dude" again...the speech police might fine me.

You missed the point entirely.

Shutting up.

TIS

 

[TonyC]

You have a better explanation, sis?

No, bro, I don't.

I'm just reminded of the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I".

I guess I won't ever call anybody "dude" again...the speech police might fine me.

We all make mistakes, and we could all end up flying our last leg tomorrow. I acknowledge that.

Feel free to use any words you desire. But you really should pause to consider how it effects others' perception of you. Do you want to be seen as a professional, or as some cheesy goofball?

If you use that level of vocabulary around me, you're only going to erode the confidence that I might have in you as a professional and as an asset to the crew. I'm going to perceive you as extra weight instead of as a contributing crewmember. Your actions, in either case, may alter the initial perception. However, why would you want to start out in the hole, so to speak, leaving yourself an uphill climb to earn respect?

How many times did you use the word "dude" during your interview?










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[BE99chick]

How many times did I say "dude" in my interview? Oh, I don't remember, it was a long time ago...probably a dozen or more times.


And TIS, you are anything but "Succinct". Wait a minute...I guess I missed the point about that too.

Later, dudes....

 

[TonyC]

Later, dudes....

Later, sis!


By the way, I liked your previous Avatar better. (the drawing)











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