In house negotiating committee at Colgan

[PCL_128]

What Colgan pilots decide will effect pilots industry-wide. You need to realize that you don't live in a vacuum.

 

[Kaman]

Seriously F the union. All that money for a stupid magazine subscription. Now there it talk of Pinnacle pilots wanting to fly the Q400 and have it written into their new contract. I really still think many people at Colgan are still on the fence about the union. A commitee would be a better idea in my opinion. WE haven't needed a union so far at Colgan. Is the union thing going to even pass? EVeryone I talk to says they aren't voting for it. What is needed for a majority? The union worked really well at Mesa. What do they get like 19 dollars an hour the first year? At least with a committee we are in a position to get some crap done right away because the company doesn't want a union. Unions protect the weak. You bust a PC maybe you shouldn't be flying around human beings. I will give you an example of a committe working well. Look at the now out of businees Tower Air. They had a pilot committee for 15 years and it worked great. Then the union came in and the place is now out of business because because the owner said screw you I am shutting down I don't need all the headaches. What is going to stop Pinnacle from just dissolving COlgan if we get a union and starting a new company? Having a union doesn't mean we are getting anymore money in our paychecks. THey can tell us to screw off just the same. Unions protect the weak and lazy. Until a union comes along that really is there to help us and not just take all of our money than screw them. We will see with this stupid vote I am voting to have a vote because this is America but from the people that I have interacted with I really don't think a union will pass. The union needs to start convincing us more. We havent been crapped on yet we needed to get crapped on by the company first.

Last time I checked you were a "new hire", and if thats the case I suggest you SHUTDAFUCUP... You have no idea what the hell you are talking about and your post is just an attempt to create trouble.

 

[Dr King]

It is amazing to me that you people actually think that alpa will be able to do anything for us. I dont know about you but I am not concerned about retirement, sexual harassment protection or busting my PC. These are the only things that they will be able to protect. At the great lunch in IAD the other day, which was paid for with pilot dues, these were the only solid issues that they claimed they would protect. I know that everyone out there has some issue with this company, but also think about the times that they have helped you out. A new union contract will still allow us to work 16 hour days, be junior assigned, and the same exact pay. Colgan will not have to agree to any terms and there is no way that we will be able to strike because the courts will not allow it. There are times that they make us do an extra leg and if you talk to them they will give you draft pay. THis will all be gone. The company will use the new crappy contract against us. The in house committee would be a good thing. We would be able to negotiate with the company directly and use forming a Union as leverage.

The bottom line is that a union will not pass. I have over 220 people who are not interested in joining the union. The committee is working fast and will start negotiating with management, but we have to do this before the union comes to a vote, otherwise we have nothing to hold over their head.

 

[Dr King]

Last time I checked you were a "new hire", and if thats the case I suggest you SHUTDAFUCUP... You have no idea what the hell you are talking about and your post is just an attempt to create trouble.

I think your wrong, I Rock was dead on. A union is a great thing for large companies where you want to be forever, but when you want to get in and get out it will only hinder us. Almost all the people i talked to who want a union are all the people that dont want to work.

 

[Kaman]

Care to post that list Dr. King? BTW, F-16? Doing what checking fuel samples and cleaning canopies, right? TOOL

 

[waterski]

Alpa Sux

 

[chimichanga]

I was hoping someone else would jump in so I wouldn't have to, but here's the scoop. By even considering an in-house "committee", you are playing into the hand of your management. More specifically, they are playing right out of the Ford & Harrison playbook, and you are going along for the ride. It worked at CommutAir, and it will probably work at Colgan too, because it seems like such a good idea.

You have a relatively small company, with decent relations with your management. You all just want to get along. Some hot-heads want to form a union, but some others think you can form a committee. Does "Mutual Interest Committee" ring any bells with my CommutAir friends? The MIC was "suggested" by a very senior captain who just happened to have close ties to management. It was presented as an alternative to national union representation. Enough people bought the idea that the union was defeated.

Then the committee was formed, ideas were hashed out, plans were made, and meetings were held. A lot of good people put in a lot of hard work. What came of it? A slight increase in the size of the bidding target window. (Now instead of bidding trips that add up to a certain 5-hour range, we have a 10-hour range to hit.) Anything else? Well, we got our health benefits cut and our share of the cost increased. We got a great new attendance policy with the word "termination" occurring more than the word "the". We lost our on-time incentive bonus. Am I forgetting anything?

So, go ahead. Dream about "can't we all just get along." That dream will last until the votes are counted and a union is defeated.

Enjoy!

 

[BirdCatcher]

Seriously F the union. All that money for a stupid magazine subscription. Now there it talk of Pinnacle pilots wanting to fly the Q400 and have it written into their new contract. I really still think many people at Colgan are still on the fence about the union. A commitee would be a better idea in my opinion. WE haven't needed a union so far at Colgan. Is the union thing going to even pass? EVeryone I talk to says they aren't voting for it. What is needed for a majority? The union worked really well at Mesa. What do they get like 19 dollars an hour the first year? At least with a committee we are in a position to get some crap done right away because the company doesn't want a union. Unions protect the weak. You bust a PC maybe you shouldn't be flying around human beings. I will give you an example of a committe working well. Look at the now out of businees Tower Air. They had a pilot committee for 15 years and it worked great. Then the union came in and the place is now out of business because because the owner said screw you I am shutting down I don't need all the headaches. What is going to stop Pinnacle from just dissolving COlgan if we get a union and starting a new company? Having a union doesn't mean we are getting anymore money in our paychecks. THey can tell us to screw off just the same. Unions protect the weak and lazy. Until a union comes along that really is there to help us and not just take all of our money than screw them. We will see with this stupid vote I am voting to have a vote because this is America but from the people that I have interacted with I really don't think a union will pass. The union needs to start convincing us more. We havent been crapped on yet we needed to get crapped on by the company first.

You must be new here

 

[Ben Johnson]

As an ex-colgan now alpa member, i like to think I have seen the two sides. You guys can argue union or non-union all you want. There is no song and dance as to how much better either one will be. Scabs will argue this while alpa argues that. Bottem line what are these guys going to do. A union shop now owns you (not the most feared shop but still a shop). Ever herd of stapled. As to what happenes you Colgan guys are bent over with your ankles in hand. Now do want sand or do you want lube. No one knows how it will play out but think before you act. The choice is simple yes or no but the long list as to why is endless.

Now most of you I am sure do not want to stay with colgan too long but drop I dont care because of the revolving door at colgan B.S. The choices you make do play into effect for the rest of us. If you cant see that well I am not going to explain it. I ll leave that for the next guy

 

[coonass]

Iam shouldnt be commetting on anything about union or non union. The Union will help you guys out more then a committe. I hate to tell all of you colgan guys that yall are a dreaming you better wake up and see how NWA groups work . you guys were bought just to settle the contract negoitate between pinncle mgt and the union there. Prime example is Mesaba and Big Sky airlines Mair bought BIG SKY to get the mesaba pilots to settle on a contract. They told the Mesaba pilot that all of the jet were going to go to BIG SKY and Mesaba would get the B1900. A little while later Mesaba settle on a crapy contract and the Avros stayed on property and the B1900 stayed with Big SKY. Dont you guys think for one second now that your owned by pinchanickel that the pinch pilots want work out with there union a scope clause saying the only thing bigger than a saab will be flow by pinchanickel pilots. I saw the same thing happen at mesaba airlines. Big Sky pilots can only fly 19 seats or less. Mair holdings is trying to get the courts to throw out the scope between mesaba pilots and Mair holding. Any aircarft that Big Sky get bigger the 19 seats are crewed by mesaba pilots.

 

[V1cutsrfun]

It seems to me that the big unknown is the common denominator here. Fear is conquered by facts....
It seems to me IMHO that there are 2 scenarious that both lead to a union organization.......without a committee

You Cannot even approach the topic of Committe negiotation until you realize who you will be negiotating with!!!

Lets start here with the Senators voting record... http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=BS023147&type=category&category=Labor

Scenario 1
After review you will see that the Senator voted his party lines consistant with the views on LABOR in the DEMS eyes. What is the AFLCIO.... a LABOR UNION!!
Its clear that over the years little has been accomplished with negiotiating with anyone in HEF. A "committe" would be a spineless entity that the company can ignore with NO recourse by the employee group. So here we sit after all these years and expect to bargain in good faith with a Committee, after all the BS that we endured, Jr manning, outstation basing, no per deim, antagonism from scheduling, threats....the list goes on and on and on. And the Senator votes to endorse a lobbyist group labor union the "AFLCIO" and their agenda. Vote one way when it costs you nothing....and fight another fight when it does cost you something?!?!?!? While his votes in the senate are going in one direction...we get the other direction at a company he owns!

Heres the catch.... the family did sell... we aren't dealing with them so much....they are merrily interim figure heads that report to the stock holders on wall street and the PCL managment that will ultimatly replace them....look at nearly every buyout in corp America, So FOLLOW the MONEY....vote one way...then bend over your own employee group..... Sure....a committee will work here....nope... We're back to ALPA talks again.

Scenario 2

PCL pilots have ALPA...they seemed to feel the need to have it there as well. Once the famialar faces are all done in HEF...you'll be dealing with the same Managment group at PCL that gave reason for the pilot group to organize there as well.....So now we talk ALPA here too......

Bottom line.....you CAN NOT negiotiate in good faith with someone that REPRESENTS a DIFFERENT interest when your interest is a barrier to the other's agenda, whether it is a PCL stock holder, PCL managment or ??????

A voting record that says one thing.....an employee group thats treated the other way.....you can't have two different opinons on a single issue!

And now you know

V1

 

[Gfunk27]

those of you who think some in house committee will accomplish anything are so deluded, why are you all so scared of the " U " word? A union won't end the company or make things any worse.. for sure, and major monetary gains may not be seen for quite a while, however what we do get is a real voice and some power when it comes time to bargain in good faith over all the issues that concern us. Even if you are leaving soon , you need to vote for the person that doesn't even work here yet.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Take a look at Skywest's SAPA or JetBlue's Pilot Compensation Committee (I think that's what they call it). These two groups have absolutely no power, zero leverage, and therefore produce no results. Management still gives you whatever they want, because the independent "negotiating committee" has no real backing. The Skywest pilots ended up with a 1.5% raise for jet pilots, no raise at all for Brasilia pilots, and a very meager override on block-time for the 70- & 90-seaters. The JetBlue pilots were so upset at the raises that came for the EMB-190 and the complete lack of raises for the Airbus pilots that they now have a group of pilots meeting with ALPA to get an organizing drive started.

If you want any control over your career at all, you need a union. I hope you choose ALPA, but any union is better than none at all.

Please don't give our management credit for being so generous...Sadly, 1.5% is 50% more than they were able to afford to "give" us at this extremely profitable airline(we were allowed 1% to cover COLA over the last 61/2 and next 4 years)!

 

[TNHillbilly]

I think your wrong, I Rock was dead on. A union is a great thing for large companies where you want to be forever, but when you want to get in and get out it will only hinder us. Almost all the people i talked to who want a union are all the people that dont want to work.

What if you like Colgan and want to stay. I know this seems like a joke, but some people like it here and just want to make it better. Please don't use the get in and get out argument. Just go ahead and get out then. Those of us that are staying for a while will do what we think is best to make it better.

 

[Mr Wu]

With the addition of the Q400, Colgan is no longer a "Get in, get your time, get out" airline. Dr. King, when was the last time, if ever, you got draft pay for an added leg? I just got done with an 8 day, yes 8, and can't get draft pay for the 7th day.

 

[suupah]

I don't understand how an in house committee can accomploish anything. They have absolutely no bite.

 

[BirdCatcher]

With the addition of the Q400, Colgan is no longer a "Get in, get your time, get out" airline. Dr. King, when was the last time, if ever, you got draft pay for an added leg? I just got done with an 8 day, yes 8, and can't get draft pay for the 7th day.

Right on Mr Wu, the good ole days are over and it is time for the pilot group adjust and change with the times. Basic rule of business he who doesn't adjust to change with change is going to lose. Some support union, some support in house options, but something that we can all agree on is a need for change. We all need to educate ourselves with all options and make the best decision for ourselves. Personally, if we are going to go make change I say go all out and get the change that can actually offer each one of us protection and bargaining power.

 

[Dr King]

With the addition of the Q400, Colgan is no longer a "Get in, get your time, get out" airline. Dr. King, when was the last time, if ever, you got draft pay for an added leg? I just got done with an 8 day, yes 8, and can't get draft pay for the 7th day.

Once already this week. All you have to do is call Mickey or dot and if they feel you went out of your way for them they will give it to you

 

[Dr King]

Everyone is right that we need change, so istead of paying a union to get us nowhere over the next three years we should give the committee a chance. If it doesnt work then we only wasted a couple of months and then we can bring the union in.

 

[ColganCapt]

Everyone is right that we need change, so istead of paying a union to get us nowhere over the next three years we should give the committee a chance. If it doesnt work then we only wasted a couple of months and then we can bring the union in.

I have seen nothing official about a "committee". What's up with this?