In house negotiating committee at Colgan

[suupah]

Pro's and Con's

fire away

 

[PCL_128]

Do you mean in place of a union? That would be a very bad idea.

 

[Mr Wu]

Illegal to bargain for pay or benefits.

 

[glfplt]

Do you mean in place of a union? That would be a very bad idea.

Why do you say that?

 

[PCL_128]

Why do you say that?

Take a look at Skywest's SAPA or JetBlue's Pilot Compensation Committee (I think that's what they call it). These two groups have absolutely no power, zero leverage, and therefore produce no results. Management still gives you whatever they want, because the independent "negotiating committee" has no real backing. The Skywest pilots ended up with a 1.5% raise for jet pilots, no raise at all for Brasilia pilots, and a very meager override on block-time for the 70- & 90-seaters. The JetBlue pilots were so upset at the raises that came for the EMB-190 and the complete lack of raises for the Airbus pilots that they now have a group of pilots meeting with ALPA to get an organizing drive started.

If you want any control over your career at all, you need a union. I hope you choose ALPA, but any union is better than none at all.

 

[glfplt]

Take a look at Skywest's SAPA or JetBlue's Pilot Compensation Committee (I think that's what they call it). These two groups have absolutely no power, zero leverage, and therefore produce no results. Management still gives you whatever they want, because the independent "negotiating committee" has no real backing. The Skywest pilots ended up with a 1.5% raise for jet pilots, no raise at all for Brasilia pilots, and a very meager override on block-time for the 70- & 90-seaters. The JetBlue pilots were so upset at the raises that came for the EMB-190 and the complete lack of raises for the Airbus pilots that they now have a group of pilots meeting with ALPA to get an organizing drive started.

If you want any control over your career at all, you need a union. I hope you choose ALPA, but any union is better than none at all.

ok, but i' m sure there are companies out there where committees worked just fine. Remember, the companies you mentioned are large and stable companies. (compared to Colgan) With the high turnover at Colgan, ALPA wouldn't really work. All we really need is the ability to speak as one. We can do that ourselves. Any step towards unification at Colgan is a good step. It just may work.

 

[PCL_128]

ok, but i' m sure there are companies out there where committees worked just fine.

Please cite an example. I can't think of a single case. It didn't work at the aforementioned companies because the concept is faulty.

Remember, the companies you mentioned are large and stable companies. (compared to Colgan) With the high turnover at Colgan, ALPA wouldn't really work.

ALPA provides a support structure that allows small pilot groups with high turnover to continue to provide quality representation. Also, please remember that your company is stable, and the holding company is quite large with over a billion in revenue from it's two subsidiaries. Colgan is no longer a tiny airline squeaking by on razor-thin margins.

All we really need is the ability to speak as one. We can do that ourselves. Any step towards unification at Colgan is a good step. It just may work.

These sorts of "committees" don't provide you any real unification. In reality, there isn't anything to unify behind. The committee has no teeth, so most pilots quickly lose faith and the situation becomes even worse than before because the pilots start in-fighting. The only way to unify and solve your problems together is to bring a union onto the property. Why not the biggest pilots' union on the planet that can provide resources and expertise that no one else can?

 

[glfplt]

Please cite an example. I can't think of a single case. It didn't work at the aforementioned companies because the concept is faulty.



ALPA provides a support structure that allows small pilot groups with high turnover to continue to provide quality representation. Also, please remember that your company is stable, and the holding company is quite large with over a billion in revenue from it's two subsidiaries. Colgan is no longer a tiny airline squeaking by on razor-thin margins.



These sorts of "committees" don't provide you any real unification. In reality, there isn't anything to unify behind. The committee has no teeth, so most pilots quickly lose faith and the situation becomes even worse than before because the pilots start in-fighting. The only way to unify and solve your problems together is to bring a union onto the property. Why not the biggest pilots' union on the planet that can provide resources and expertise that no one else can?

Doesn't Southwest have this committee? and we have some ex-Chicago Express guys that had a committee that worked great for them.
Everyone seems to be generalizing the issues. ALPA may work great at Pinnacle but that doesn't mean they'll work for us.
Interacting with the Colgans is not as difficult as people make it out to be.
I can't speak about life at Pinnacle because i've never even set foot in any of your planes, but i can't imagine it to be as bad as some guys on this board make it out to be.

 

[PCL_128]

Doesn't Southwest have this committee? and we have some ex-Chicago Express guys that had a committee that worked great for them.

No, Southwest pilots have a union called SWAPA. SWAPA pays ALPA a great deal of money for services also. Having flown with one of the former Chicago Express organizing committee members, I can tell you that things were certainly not rosey at Chicago Express without a union.

Everyone seems to be generalizing the issues. ALPA may work great at Pinnacle but that doesn't mean they'll work for us.

ALPA is what you make of it. I know several members of your organizing committee, and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that they are dedicated to making Colgan a better place to work. With good local elected reps, ALPA will certainly work great for you and your pilot group.

Interacting with the Colgans is not as difficult as people make it out to be.

That may be true, but you're not just dealing with the Colgans anymore. The Colgans are now nothing but employees of Pinnacle Corp. Phil Trenary allows them to run Colgan operations in a limited capacity for now, but that won't last for long. Remember, you aren't just a pilot for a small turboprop operator in the Northeast and Texas anymore. You're part of a billion dollar corporation with a senior management team that has a horrible history of labor relations.

 

[suupah]

an organized pilot commitee does not offer license protection or protection from bunk pc checks or line checks

 

[sinkrate]

With the high turnover at Colgan, ALPA wouldn't really work.

Experience has shown the exact opposite is true. Pinnacle once lost 30% of its CA's in 3 months. Four years of longevity typically puts you in the top 25% of the seniority list. A strong national union provides a lot of support and stability to the locals when the locals can't keep their positions staffed due to attrition.

 

[Mr Wu]

It didn't take long to go from pay raise to in-house negotiating committee. Looks like the union busting program is moving along nicely. Next, look for them to send us a survey to see what issues we want addressed. They will then pick a couple that don't cost a penny and give them to us. My guess is no hats will be first.

 

[Ben Johnson]

If you want an in house commity make sure you guys elect Chuck Colgan as your rep I am sure he will do a great job. And when you do so look to the past, which I know for most of the colgan crew is in months not years. So let me remind you all of his commitment to you. He has a great history of providing the type of working environemt that any pilot would love. Long hard days, limited sick calls, zero worker protcetion and zero benifits. Just remember you are there to basically work for food seeing as how thats about all your pay check can cover. All you need to be is thankful you have a job.

 

[PCL_128]

an organized pilot commitee does not offer license protection or protection from bunk pc checks or line checks

Not to mention Aeromedical help, a safety structure, an accident investigation team, a legal team, and the list goes on. ALPA is a whole lot more than just negotiating.

 

[XJohXJ]

If you have a union, rather than a committee, your jobs will not be protected. Without a legal union, if any committee members oppose, or in any way bother, management, then they will be fired. Maybe they'll have one of those difficult PC's, or whatever....