Im Ready, UNION AT FLEX

[flex*wife]

My husband was just reading me stuff from yammer. No wonder people are afraid to post there. Shameful management allowing it to happen but really bad that the union people are allowing it to happen to one of their own. I hope there's a good strategy there because right now it looks like it's only one person brave enough to post.

The same 6 people posting over and over are only ones ever about anti union stuff. That poor guy is out to dry by himself. Of course I say that after telling my husband over my dead body he's gonna post anything.

What a perfect opportunity for the union reps to post the nastiness of their replies is exactly why people are afraid to question something that might even seem slightly questioning management.

If seeing how management allows a person to be harrassed called a liar and a bad christian on a company forum simply because the people saying it side with management doesn't sway people to the union nothing will. Didn't those two guys get fired for something similar? Well if management doesn't act on this I think its your proof they were fired for being pro union. I wonder if the anti union people understand how the bigger a$$holes and stupid they are the more they heap trouble for their beloved RH amd KR. Go look now because I suspect it will be gone monday. That's a harassment or civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen. I hope someone from the union is smart enough to take screenshots. Tonight.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Welcome flex*wife. Our local has experience dealing with these tactics. What I don't like is how long it takes to make things right. Uncle and his lawyers know how to stall. The RIF of 70 took too long to correct but the Options pilots stuck together, and eventually got those hostages back. What does hostage taking tell you about their management style?

 

[flex*wife]

Welcome flex*wife. Our local has experience dealing with these tactics. What I don't like is how long it takes to make things right. Uncle and his lawyers know how to stall. The RIF of 70 took too long to correct but the Options pilots stuck together, and eventually got those hostages back. What does hostage taking tell you about their management style?

Sticking together? Doesn't quite look that way to an outsider.

With your fellow pilots tearing each other apart like lions on an antelope who needs KR to destroy your company? Seems like those anti - union guys have brought a whole level of fear to the campaign for you. Like the union and be hated and vilified by your coworkers. Expect the pro union people to come to your defense, not likely.

You're right. History is repeating itself but it's you who's doing it. With my husband not being willing, I'm trying to keep my mouth shut but I actually think you have stepped into brand new territory on this one. Just my opinion. By the way, your uncle is winning the debate issue. Obviously no one is bothering to read your letters. You guys are taking this high road crap a little too far because apparently no one is listening to it. You look like a bunch of weak idiots.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I don't know who you are talking to but what I see and hear on the road is quite different. The Flex pilots who have educated themselves are banding together to protect themselves. The few very vocal anti-union guys are nothing new to us. There is a very solid pro-pilot group here at Options that just happen to use our Local to speak for us. We tried the in-house route but that fell on deaf ears.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

What are the Flex pilots going to do now that Uncle is taking your fellow pilots hostage?

 

[warlord19]

I would like to take a few minutes to express my thoughts this morning.

1)The first 2 “hostages” apparently said/posted some pretty outrageous things about both KR and his vision for the new company on a public forum. They were given the opportunity to apologize and refused. I don’t know of any company anywhere that allows such stupidity…do you? And I know nothing of 3 more “hostages”.

2)There are some comments about the number of a/c fluctuating and that that is somehow related to our culture changing??? I see it for what it is i.e. selling of a/c we no longer will be flying and introducing new a/c…it’s not a linear process.

3)There is 993’s post about KR owning several companies and doing shell games with a/c services, etc. Well, there sure is opportunity for corruption there, but any astute business guy is gonna use his own resources when he can..it only makes sense. If he does play illegal games, that will be between him, his bosses(read investors), and the IRS.

4)flexwife made a comment about a FPOC member posting a flagrantly misguided message on Y and getting negative feedback. It’s common knowledge that you can post most any comment, question, etc on there IF it is civil and not an obvious attempt to push your agenda…just read Yammer and see all the different question…..but in this case it was obvious what the poster was saying was simply not right, and he got some feedback. He(flexwife) I guess doesn’t remember all the flagrant BS that’s been posted here about our management when he mentions lawsuits, etc.

5)Lastly I would say this. If I had an 8 year old child, I could send him/her to college fully funded with the dues/compound interest I would give to the IBT. That being said, the combined pilot group is getting large enough to need representation to make our needs known and influence company behavior, and I would have no problems supporting ALPA or an in-house union. But don’t ask me to support the IBT.

 

[flex*wife]

Warlord you're such a prick. When I might even be agreeing with some of what you're saying you try to insult me. I'm not some dude hiding behind a screen name. You are a major part of the problem at flex if you believe that.

Here's what I do know. The IBT wouldn't be funding this whole thing if they didn't have at least 100 cards already. That's a significant percentage of your pilots. Yet on Yammer there is nothing but crickets when it comes to asking any of the real questions the pilots are posting here and hopefully on the union boards. So right away your premise any question can be asked falls completely flat. The only thing that was misguided about that post was thinking people like you would ever believe the situation of pilots not feeling free to ask questions is in fact so much worse than you'd think.

Out of 300 pilots you're going to tell me only 25 (generous) or so have any questions about what's being done to fundamentally transform the way flex operates? You're going to tell me out of 300 only 12 people (the number who posted) thought he bonus issue was worth addressing? Your pilots are obviously not comfortable asking questions. After the way someone asking a few questions was treated with some pretty viscous stuff your management has more to worry about than you bargained for. You just sent anyone with a conscious running for their printers to send in their cards. You're getting your just desserts for being such an ass.

As for lawsuits a post from an anonymous user on a forum board is completely different than a post with real names on a company sponsored message board. I hope the company is too cocky to remove it because it will do nothing but help the ibt in court about what rights the company is willing to violate in keeping a union out. My hope is that was the plan and your dumb a$$ fell for it. You really put the company and yourself in a bind when you answered as you did. And based on your toned down response here, I think there's a little part of you that's scared about that.

My point is they can't only punish pro union guys for the things they are accused of saying and doing but ignore when their own pro company guys do the same thing. If management actually does that then they are handing those hostages huge payouts. So the irony is they will throw you under the bus and then you will wonder why there was no union to help you. Geez you are stupid.

You asked for someone to prove to you how unethical and corrupt KR is. They prove it and then you say oh well that's between him and his investors. Newsflash you are nothing more than an operator of capital for him. He will throw you under the bus quicker than your willing to throw your fellow pilots and that's apparently lightening fast.

As for the dues good luck paying for college when your out of a job by the time that kid goes. KR is on record saying he hates seniority and believes a good manager works to pay his employees less not more. On freaking record. In his book. He asked you guts to read his book but apparently you haven't because you seem to think he's a different man than he tells you in plain English he is.

Do you even realize how stupid you sound? Both here and on Yammer? I actually feel sorry for you. Sincerely I do.

 

[flex*wife]

One more thing warlord about you being an idiot.

You say you'd support ALPA but then obviously you've failed to do your research. They are not interested.

Beyond that though do you realize that the everyone at ibt is former ALPA? They've overhauled much of their top leadership and they are almost all from ALPA. The guy the commitee have helping them is a former ALPA star shark. Yet KR won't debate if they bring him. That's the issue. Read the letters.

Also regarding dues the ibt is the only union to keep such a large percentage of dues in the local. That means there to help you. At ALPA or any other union you'd have more dues going to the national than to your local.

Go with ALPA and have your dues go to election campaigns. That doesn't happen with ibt when most of your dues stay with your local.

Stop listening to the Kool aid and research it. I was very anti ibt even just until recently. They are not the mafia thugs of yesterday and they've gone to painstaking efforts to rid themselves of the details that gave them that reputation many years ago.

And in house? Give me a break. You are squawking about 1.5% to ibt but to do in house from scratch you'd have to pay 4 or 5 times that to start up in house that would have any chance of being effective. You don't like research do you? Easier to just believe what savior Rick tells you despite the fact he's paid to keep lying to you.

 

[luckydog]

I would like to take a few minutes to express my thoughts this morning.

1)The first 2 ?hostages? apparently said/posted some pretty outrageous things about both KR and his vision for the new company on a public forum. They were given the opportunity to apologize and refused. I don?t know of any company anywhere that allows such stupidity?do you? And I know nothing of 3 more ?hostages?.

2)There are some comments about the number of a/c fluctuating and that that is somehow related to our culture changing??? I see it for what it is i.e. selling of a/c we no longer will be flying and introducing new a/c?it?s not a linear process.

3)There is 993?s post about KR owning several companies and doing shell games with a/c services, etc. Well, there sure is opportunity for corruption there, but any astute business guy is gonna use his own resources when he can..it only makes sense. If he does play illegal games, that will be between him, his bosses(read investors), and the IRS.

4)flexwife made a comment about a FPOC member posting a flagrantly misguided message on Y and getting negative feedback. It?s common knowledge that you can post most any comment, question, etc on there IF it is civil and not an obvious attempt to push your agenda?just read Yammer and see all the different question?..but in this case it was obvious what the poster was saying was simply not right, and he got some feedback. He(flexwife) I guess doesn?t remember all the flagrant BS that?s been posted here about our management when he mentions lawsuits, etc.

5)Lastly I would say this. If I had an 8 year old child, I could send him/her to college fully funded with the dues/compound interest I would give to the IBT. That being said, the combined pilot group is getting large enough to need representation to make our needs known and influence company behavior, and I would have no problems supporting ALPA or an in-house union. But don?t ask me to support the IBT.

Clearly I'm no fan of the IBT but this red herring BS is just stupid.

1) I've read what was written on Yammer. While not the smartest thing ever said on a public forum, to me, it doesn't even come close to warranting termination. An outrageous statement would be something like "even though every public safety official in the DFW metroplex advises citizens to stay home, don't drive, I think you should try to come to work"

2) FJ aircraft are being removed from flying and new aircraft are indeed scheduled to be added to the FJ list but, in this case the new aircraft are not guaranteed to be flown by FJ crews. It's a LOSS, and you're right it's not a linear loss, we will lose more flying slots as this vision progresses.

3) We are the unwilling pawns of a corporate "turn around". We don't have to like it.

4) Again with Yammer, good luck finding anyone sharing a real opinion there.

5) Show me your math on this college thing. It doesn't stand up at all. In order for your statement to be true, you must make a sh!t ton of money, plan on an unobtainable interest rate, or have no idea how much college costs or how fast those costs are increasing.

 

[Seahawk]

Oh what meaningless and pointless drivel.......