Im Ready, UNION AT FLEX

[Club ORD FO]

Why should we "get use" to 8/7? I don't see how that could ever be forced on us

Should we also get use to options pay? I hate these empty threats/promises that voting in a union means we will work under the options CBS rules.

 

[jetwash]

Why should we "get use" to 8/7? I don't see how that could ever be forced on us

Should we also get use to options pay? I hate these empty threats/promises that voting in a union means we will work under the options CBS rules.

There is no reason why the current flex schedule can't be the schedule for the joint CBAwith a 7on/7off option for those who want it. The 8/7 has got to go or be a volenteer only schedule.

That is why Flex pilots will be on the joint negotiation committee.

To get a schedule like that you will need to have strong support and unity from all of the Flexpilots. Just ask the Netjets pilots how they showed their unity.

 

[dime line]

That is why Flex pilots will be on the joint negotiation committee.

We welcome you to everything joint, the only person here trying to screw you is Ricci not us, were just pilots like you.

 

[doh]

Get use to the 8/7. As far as vacation it is a rotation week, and my contract says I'm not on call, when I'm off duty, vacation and during 7 days off. So I'm not sure where you heard that. Maybe the Red Label thing.

So after ten years you get four 8 day rotations free from duty? Four times a year you get 22 days in a row off? Because I actually did hear that was not the case.

 

[jetwash]

So after ten years you get four 8 day rotations free from duty? Four times a year you get 22 days in a row off? Because I actually did hear that was not the case.

You get two 8 day rotations off per year ( each 22 days off in a row) if you have more PTO time in your bank you can get a third 8 day rotation off for another 22 days free from work.

OR

you can bid for two 8 day rotations off in a row to give you 37 days free from work. I know of a few guys who have done that.

 

[993_Pilot]

Why should we "get use" to 8/7? I don't see how that could ever be forced on us

Should we also get use to options pay? I hate these empty threats/promises that voting in a union means we will work under the options CBS rules.

I think that what he meant by that, was that KR came up with the 8/7 and likes it, so if you don't vote for the union, then you will probably have an 8/7 forced upon you at some point. If you vote for the union, and we are collectively unified, we can get whatever we negotiate. The negotiating committee will definitely be made up pilots from both groups, so vote for the union, then volunteer... It is the only way you will have a say in anything!

 

[doh]

You get two 8 day rotations off per year ( each 22 days off in a row) if you have more PTO time in your bank you can get a third 8 day rotation off for another 22 days free from work.

OR

you can bid for two 8 day rotations off in a row to give you 37 days free from work. I know of a few guys who have done that.

Whereas we currently get 4 vacations a year. They are of a shorter duration (13 days), but we aren't stuck being gone 8 days in a row either. If management insist on 8 day rotations, then a vacation week should equal a rotation week. And that means 4 rotations free from duty per year.

 

[slowtation capt]

Whereas we currently get 4 vacations a year. They are of a shorter duration (13 days), but we aren't stuck being gone 8 days in a row either. If management insist on 8 day rotations, then a vacation week should equal a rotation week. And that means 4 rotations free from duty per year.

And that's what he said,
a vacation is your entire rotation.
So you take vacation,
you have your 8 days off

 

[doh]

And that's what he said,
a vacation is your entire rotation.
So you take vacation,
you have your 8 days off

What he said was you get TWO vacations per year. That is the unacceptable result of eight day rotations without a clause that equates a vacation week with a rotation week. Once again, if management insist on these outrageously long rotations, vacation should be equally long. AND, ten years equals four vacation weeks. You guys have allowed management to convince you to give up all work life balance in favor of this ridiculous work schedule. That must change.

 

[jetwash]

AND, ten years equals four vacation weeks. You guys have allowed management to convince you to give up all work life balance in favor of this ridiculous work schedule. That must change.

That is why in the next JCBA we should have mutiple schedules, keep the current Flex one as a base and offer a voluntary 7/7 schedule to whoever wants it.

If you show strong support for a union and get over 75% yes vote on your side you will be in a better position to keep your schedule. If you only get 51% then you go into negotiations weaker. If we don't vote in the union then all bets are off and KR can put us on what ever schedule he wants even the Travel management one of 15/13 if he choses.

In the end it is up to us to show him that we have enough support to dig in our heels and reject any future contract that doesn't include a good varity of schedules.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

^^ Bingo ^^

 

[slowtation capt]

What he said was you get TWO vacations per year. That is the unacceptable result of eight day rotations without a clause that equates a vacation week with a rotation week. Once again, if management insist on these outrageously long rotations, vacation should be equally long. AND, ten years equals four vacation weeks. You guys have allowed management to convince you to give up all work life balance in favor of this ridiculous work schedule. That must change.

A vacation week is a rotation of 8 days off!

Two 8 day rotations off.
Three 8 day rotations off if you have the hours

7 scheduled off, 8 vacation days (a rotation) 7 scheduled off = 22 days in a row free from any obligation to the company.

If you get three vacations and do back to back

Then 7, 8, 7, 8, 7 =. 37 days in a row free from company obligation.

 

[doh]

A vacation week is a rotation of 8 days off!

Two 8 day rotations off.
Three 8 day rotations off if you have the hours

7 scheduled off, 8 vacation days (a rotation) 7 scheduled off = 22 days in a row free from any obligation to the company.

If you get three vacations and do back to back

Then 7, 8, 7, 8, 7 =. 37 days in a row free from company obligation.

You keep making my point!! You do not accrue enough vacation in a year!! That is the point!!! Two vacations, three if you have enough time is BU!!S***!!!! FOUR VACATIONS FOR A TEN YEAR EMPLOYEE!!! FOUR, NOT TWO OR THREE!!!

 

[doh]

That there is even a question about whether you would accrue enough time for three vacations tells me you have a completely f'd up mentality about work life balance over there.

 

[slowtation capt]

That there is even a question about whether you would accrue enough time for three vacations tells me you have a completely f'd up mentality about work life balance over there.

The reason why I don't accrue enough vacation for three is because, I take time when I want it, and not when they want me to take it.

 

[Club ORD FO]

That is why in the next JCBA we should have mutiple schedules, keep the current Flex one as a base and offer a voluntary 7/7 schedule to whoever wants it.

.

its not that simple. Pref bidding works best when everyone is on it. We had voluntary 7/7 for a while and it was nixed because it meant junior people could use that to make sure they get Xmas off or something. In our system if you want 7/7 you just bid for it. If you are senior enough you get it. But who in their right mind wants to work 7 days in a row? I don't get how you guys do 8/6 and actually defend it as a good idea

 

[993_Pilot]

its not that simple. Pref bidding works best when everyone is on it. We had voluntary 7/7 for a while and it was nixed because it meant junior people could use that to make sure they get Xmas off or something. In our system if you want 7/7 you just bid for it. If you are senior enough you get it. But who in their right mind wants to work 7 days in a row? I don't get how you guys do 8/6 and actually defend it as a good idea

We don't do 8/6, we do 8/7 or 7/7, or a flex schedule. I am all for having more options, but if you want something other than an 8/7, you guys better get together and overwhelmingly vote the union in and then be ready to volunteer and support the negotiations. If you just sit in the background and B!tch about how great Flexjet used to be, we are all doomed.... It's your choice.

 

[jetwash]

!! FOUR VACATIONS FOR A TEN YEAR EMPLOYEE!!! FOUR, NOT TWO OR THREE!!!

Does this mean that you will be on the negotiations committee ?

If so, I like your idea and support you 100%.

 

[doh]

Does this mean that you will be on the negotiations committee ?

If so, I like your idea and support you 100%.

That's what the discussion is about. But it does no good to be on the negotiating committee if people like slowtation won't 86 the ridiculous notion that vacation should be lumped with other stuff. If you fly sick, you can have an extra vacation?? WTFO?? They are mutually exclusive. And you guys consistently argue in favor of this f'd up nonsense.

 

[doh]

And management's argument that you can use pto when you want is BS too. You must have approval from your manager...translation: you will not get your wife's birthday off if it falls mid rotation.

 

[slowtation capt]

That's what the discussion is about. But it does no good to be on the negotiating committee if people like slowtation won't 86 the ridiculous notion that vacation should be lumped with other stuff. If you fly sick, you can have an extra vacation?? WTFO?? They are mutually exclusive. And you guys consistently argue in favor of this f'd up nonsense.

We are not understanding each other.
You said a vacation week should equal a rotation.
I understood you to mean that when we take a vacation we should get our full 8 off.
I was stating the fact that we get the 8 off when we take vacation.

As far as vacation/PTO/sick in the same balance, yes, it's ********************#ty.

Don't bother with PTO, it's a pain for approval, and they are just forcing you to call sick.
It's easier to call sick, than PTO. When you call sick, you are off until you call well. And if they don't want to work with you on PTO, and have advanced notice, then screw them at the last minute.

 

[jetwash]

That is exactly what we are hoping to change in the next contract. Separate sick days and separate vacation days. But unfortunatly we did not have full 100% support from all of our pilots and the negotiators were not able to push it through.


With any luck and more support from the Flex pilots we might just get it for the unified group.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Rock on DOH. You get it.

OPT has some great things in their CBA but Flex under Bombardier was proof there is more available with profit possibility.

Let's not give up a thing, not one f'ing thing, that can be defended by profit possiblity. I for one refuse to go backward on any issue and the way it stands, OPT is less than flex on the vacation/schedule issue.

 

[doh]

And here is another item that is continuously rearing its head. How many of the newly typed 45 "captain upgrades" are actually flying as, and being paid as, captains? Upgrades aren't upgrades until the paycheck increases.

 

[flexible]

Doh Rick did meeting at training center explained the process. no smoking gun and ppl are getting filtered through asap. There were small issues that have been corrected and we shouldn't have this same problem in a month.

if it's consolation Rick was caught by surprise with Ken's decision on the bonus. He was told one thing would happen, left for vacation, come back to the exact opposite been done. I felt bad for him. I think this while union thing is really getting him screwed. He knows first hand how working with Ken is and still feels we don't need the union meddling so I figure he know better than you. Reading between lines I'd guess what really happened was the union pissed Ken off enough to take away what had been agreed to. Future? Vote union, piss Ken off, it gets ugly.

Yep, think I'd rather take my chances with maybe than send in a card for a sure loss. Still though I admit every day brings a different decision.

 

[el raton]

Doh Rick did meeting at training center explained the process. no smoking gun and ppl are getting filtered through asap. There were small issues that have been corrected and we shouldn't have this same problem in a month.

if it's consolation Rick was caught by surprise with Ken's decision on the bonus. He was told one thing would happen, left for vacation, come back to the exact opposite been done. I felt bad for him. I think this while union thing is really getting him screwed. He knows first hand how working with Ken is and still feels we don't need the union meddling so I figure he know better than you. Reading between lines I'd guess what really happened was the union pissed Ken off enough to take away what had been agreed to. Future? Vote union, piss Ken off, it gets ugly.

Yep, think I'd rather take my chances with maybe than send in a card for a sure loss. Still though I admit every day brings a different decision.

Help me understand what you're saying. You're saying KR punish a non-union entity by doing away with their bonus because the Teamsters ticked him off?

 

[flexible]

Help me understand what you're saying. You're saying KR punish a non-union entity by doing away with their bonus because the Teamsters ticked him off?

I'm not saying anything that's what Rick said. The point I am making is it seems smarter to not poke the bear now that we know what the bear will do.

Single-carrier makes is union if we send in a card.

Put two two together. Rick told one thing would happen and goes on vacation. He come back to exact opposite happening.

What happeed in between? Union poked and cost us 10grand that's what.

So we know the union will prolly keep pissing Ken off. Why would we willingly invite discord into our lives when we have proof of its consequence?

 

[doh]

Doh Rick did meeting at training center explained the process. no smoking gun and ppl are getting filtered through asap. There were small issues that have been corrected and we shouldn't have this same problem in a month.

if it's consolation Rick was caught by surprise with Ken's decision on the bonus. He was told one thing would happen, left for vacation, come back to the exact opposite been done. I felt bad for him. I think this while union thing is really getting him screwed. He knows first hand how working with Ken is and still feels we don't need the union meddling so I figure he know better than you. Reading between lines I'd guess what really happened was the union pissed Ken off enough to take away what had been agreed to. Future? Vote union, piss Ken off, it gets ugly.

Yep, think I'd rather take my chances with maybe than send in a card for a sure loss. Still though I admit every day brings a different decision.

What process? I asked how many of the newly typed 45 guys are being paid as captains. It is not a process. It is a number. 10? 20? 1? 0? What is the number? And as far as the bonus, he can dissemble all he wants. Kenn didn't "make it right", and Rick told us something that is NOT true. That is all that matters. It is already incredibly ugly without a voice. If we don't vote yes, we will be even more abused by Kenn, and lied to by Rick.

 

[doh]

And please take a little time for spelling and punctuation. I can barely understand what you are trying to say.

 

[flexible]

And please take a little time for spelling and punctuation. I can barely understand what you are trying to say.

Sorry I fixed it. I'm typing on my phone with big thumbs.