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Im Ready, UNION AT FLEX

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SDCFI said:
So who was it then? I haven't heard a peep and yammer is a ghost town.

To follow up on flexible's posts, right now any discipline by management no matter how deserving will be spun by the IBT as a threat against the union.

Its not a threat to the union. Its a direct threat to YOU. If Uncle can intimidate enough of you, then he knows he can have his way with you for the rest of your career.
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SDCFI said:
So who was it then? I haven't heard a peep and yammer is a ghost town.

To follow up on flexible's posts, right now any discipline by management no matter how deserving will be spun by the IBT as a threat against the union. What gets me is the double standard where the union accuses management of fear mongering and deceit meanwhile they use similar tactics to scare us into voting for them. Only makes sense I guess since that's how our political system works!
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Just got clarification from one of the POC people that it was SG and JW. All I had to do was private message them on the vuh and I got an answer right away. It's hard not to put an against the union spin on it when it's pretty obvious that's what it is.

As for the rest, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm far from decided on this union issue but I disagree with you that the union peeps use similar tactics to management. Your opinion on that and your other posts here say a lot about your level of maturity. The fact you can deny (or worse case compare) what management is clearly doing for you own self described rebel poking the bear fun is ridiculously immature on such a serious issue.

The only thing that keeps me in the middle is how open and honest the POC has been otherwise this card carrying republican would have made my choice a long time ago. Some of those guys are great, great guys. I just simply don't like unions. Obviously, you have the same amount of respect for your fellow pilots as you do for our political system. I'd prolly hate flying with you so it's just as well I hope I never have to. Please, please be a low seniority 604 FO so I don't ever have to worry about it.
 
GlorifiedCabbie said:
flexible, does the union have the power to fire people because they don't like it that you don't toe the union line?
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Of course not but let's be honest they could make life easy or hard if they wanted to. I guess it all depends on how well and on time you pay your dues. According to PD at least.

It is a little bit of a protection racket if you think about it. Unfortunately, the longer I work for Ricci the more I see it's a viable business model. Unions aren't in business because CEO's are honest and upstanding. Ricci claims he hates unions but his business methodologies practically scream for one being necessary. Shoot, maybe he's actually getting kickbacks from membership.

I didn't come looking for the hard sell, just some info and I've gotten what I needed. Thanks.

I just didn't want to put it in the vuh because I didn't feel like 1000 phone calls to get me off the fence tonight.
 
flexible said:
Of course not but let's be honest they could make life easy or hard if they wanted to. I guess it all depends on how well and on time you pay your dues. According to PD at least.

PD is a crybaby. He had no problem throwing others under the bus. When it was his turn to get bumped, it was too late to avoid his pay cut. Cry me a river.
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Anything That comes out of PD is garbage! He thinks he is an expert on the the union an the NRLB. Ask him how his request for a single carrier determination is coming? I sure hope the rest of his coworkers see through his bs.
 
The petition that is going around that has 32 signatures for RH to resign. I have not seen it yet but probably would be willing to sign it
 
There is a petition going around for Handschuch to resign? Hilarious. C'mon guys, you know he has your back...sighted in...
 
Flex605 said:
The petition that is going around that has 32 signatures for RH to resign. I have not seen it yet but probably would be willing to sign it
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Well that seems rather redundant. But at last you flexers get it. I hope every one of those signatures represents someone who has also sent in their card for the vote.

Remember the card doesn't guarantee a union on property any more than this petition guarantees Rick will resign. It merely represents your voice in saying "I think we should have the right to decide this issue."

I find it hard to believe they don't have enough cards yet. Impossible actually. My guess is there is a smart reason for holding off just a little longer. Maybe this court case?

Regarding PD and the single carrier comment, would you please explain. What is he trying to do? I thought the company didn't want that, doesn't make sense their lackey is pushing it.
 
Flex605 said:
The petition that is going around that has 32 signatures for RH to resign. I have not seen it yet but probably would be willing to sign it
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No need for that, just get enough cards in for the union vote and KR will show him the door like he did to Bob when the 1108 was voted in at Options.

Plus don't put a target on yourselves until you have protection of a CBA. Keep your heads down and send in your cards.
 
jetwash said:
No need for that, just get enough cards in for the union vote and KR will show him the door like he did to Bob when the 1108 was voted in at Options.

Plus don't put a target on yourselves until you have protection of a CBA. Keep your heads down and send in your cards.
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That is excellent advice, problem is, it just hasn't worked out so far.

Honestly I can't understand why. There's always about 10% that just don't get it, and never will, but what's the hold up with the rest?

Let's just look at the list:
No bonus
No enhanced 401(k)
Multiple firings, not related to flying
FX tail aircraft being flown by FLOPs
G450 going to FLOPs pilots and junior FJ crew
iWOG and CAMP
Red Label
Special treatment of FLOPs crews at FJ


Are people holding out for ALPA or an internal group because they don't like the IBT? If that's the case, it's time to lower your expectations and dance with the partner we've got.

A petition to remove RH, useless even if every pilot at FJ signed it. He won't step down. And if he did, what new overlord would Kenn appoint to oversee the continued assimilations?
 
flex*wife said:
...Regarding PD and the single carrier comment, would you please explain. What is he trying to do? I thought the company didn't want that, doesn't make sense their lackey is pushing it.
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The main thing KR cares about is keeping the union out, so he can do things his way. He doesn't care about keeping the seniority list separate, because he would just go on with Red-Label program if he is allowed, and seniority won't matter. So to answer your question very simply, "Single Carrier" triggers the representation vote, and management believes that the sooner the vote happens, the more likely it will come out in their favor. Luckily it's probably already too late for that, the way they have screwed with you guys. Flex may not be at 65% on the card drive yet, but I would be willing to bet that the combined Flex & Options groups have well over the necessary 50% + 1.
 
Last edited:
Have you seen the latest BS Handcrank post? Read the POC letter. At no time do they say the terminated pilot was let go because of his union affiliation. They only say, correctly, that it is sleazy to smear the guy without giving any evidence or allowing him to defend himself. So, Mr Boyscout, why don't you tell about the racist slur you used on JC? And why weren't youmterminated for that? Twisting the truth until it becomes a lie.
 
It's nice to see you guys coming around. I have only one regret in my aviation career. Not quitting when RICCI got us at travel air in 01!!!!Give em hell
 
may be the best post ever: I stole this from AV8OR on another thread. I am guessing he's a NJ pilot..Sorry AV8OR but this has to be read. I take no credit for this post. And please read it about 50 times ..

How did we get to a place where the only cost associated with doing business that should remain fixed, go down and is apparently not subject to the same supply and demand forces is labor? I'm aware that labor can be greedy in negotiations as well as management, but when the price of gas doubles, nobody likes it but they pay it. If I was at a McDonalds in an area where the min wage was $15/hr and I had to pay another dollar for my happy meal, Id pay it! When Gulfstream raises their prices... People still buy them! I just saw that the Superintendent of Education in Atlanta makes $450k a year. If you want Payton Manning to play for your team because your customers want that caliber of talent... You PAY them.

For most of my flying career except for maybe one short time in the late 90's "Just be glad you've got a job" was the norm. In 93 when there was a glut of pilots, the regionals in cahoots with FlightSafety were charging pilots 10k for the high privilege of getting a check out in the right seat of a Brazillia and making 15k a year.

And during those times nobody gave two ********************s how that impacted the financials or the safety of aviators or aviation... And now... After 25 years of basically relatively stagnant wages in aviation there's an actual demand for qualified pilots and some folks are worried how billion dollar corporations are gonna survive? People are worried that... God forbid... A customer might have to pay a fraction more for premium service because unfortunately the pool of experience has started to dry? Cry me an F'n river!

Next time Gulfstream raises their prices or Coca Cola theirs or Exon theirs... Be sure and complain to them how difficult it is for you to afford THEIR product and see how far that gets Ya. Well guess what? Over the years there's a bunch of us who have been quietly building OUR business. Making the sacrifices WE needed to make to stay in the flying business. And OUR persistence and dedication has come to fruition. Hope Yall enjoyed the fire sale in the cockpit over the last 15-20 years. Prices just went up.
 
luckydog said:
That is excellent advice, problem is, it just hasn't worked out so far.

Honestly I can't understand why. There's always about 10% that just don't get it, and never will, but what's the hold up with the rest?

Let's just look at the list:
No bonus
No enhanced 401(k)
Multiple firings, not related to flying
FX tail aircraft being flown by FLOPs
G450 going to FLOPs pilots and junior FJ crew
iWOG and CAMP
Red Label
Special treatment of FLOPs crews at FJ


Are people holding out for ALPA or an internal group because they don't like the IBT? If that's the case, it's time to lower your expectations and dance with the partner we've got.

A petition to remove RH, useless even if every pilot at FJ signed it. He won't step down. And if he did, what new overlord would Kenn appoint to oversee the continued assimilations?
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26th of 48 laws of power

Keep your hands clean

You must seem a paragon of civility and efficiency, your hands are never soiled by mistakes and nasty deeds. Maintain such a spotless appearance by using others as scapegoats and cat?s-paws to disguise your involvement.
 
Here is a place that needs a union ready to exercise the nuclear option. Horror tales from friends of mine working.
 
Yip, your "friends" are probably IBT wannabe 's that are saying anything and everything in order to sway opinion of the pilot group. That have stooped to new lows and whoever sent out the last letter to pilots graduated from the BOZO school of Lies and manipulation. The majority of pilots here see the great opportunities being offered here...the lemmings offer only gloom, doom, and lies.
Cheers
 
32nd of 48 laws of power

Play to people’s fantasies

The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert, everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.
 
warlord19 said:
Yip, your "friends" are probably IBT wannabe 's that are saying anything and everything in order to sway opinion of the pilot group. That have stooped to new lows and whoever sent out the last letter to pilots graduated from the BOZO school of Lies and manipulation. The majority of pilots here see the great opportunities being offered here...the lemmings offer only gloom, doom, and lies.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Warlord - stop drinking the cool aid with extra Splenda and wake up to the new world order of lies and manipulation by you and ricci . Burn In hell brother
 
warlord19 said:
Yip, your "friends" are probably IBT wannabe 's that are saying anything and everything in order to sway opinion of the pilot group. That have stooped to new lows and whoever sent out the last letter to pilots graduated from the BOZO school of Lies and manipulation. The majority of pilots here see the great opportunities being offered here...the lemmings offer only gloom, doom, and lies.
Cheers
Click to expand...

The last letter sent out was from Handschuch. Bozo school of lies and manipulation indeed.
 
Flex 605…uh, Splenda sucks and is unhealthy…plain sugar for me. Kinda nasty remark at the end there, BRO. Don’t see how saying that helps your position.

duh..try asking your Cap’n Crunch for permission to read Yammer. The BOZO letter is published there in it’s full glory. And, while your at it, Ask Cap’n C to call for a vote and let’s get this over with. The IBT isn’t coming on this property without a fight. If (and when) you lose, take all that energy you and your fellow lemmings have and start an in-house union that doesn’t have any of the baggage the IBT brings to the table…it will be a shoe-in.
Cheers
WL
 
warlord19 said:
Flex 605?uh, Splenda sucks and is unhealthy?plain sugar for me. Kinda nasty remark at the end there, BRO. Don?t see how saying that helps your position.

duh..try asking your Cap?n Crunch for permission to read Yammer. The BOZO letter is published there in it?s full glory. And, while your at it, Ask Cap?n C to call for a vote and let?s get this over with. The IBT isn?t coming on this property without a fight. If (and when) you lose, take all that energy you and your fellow lemmings have and start an in-house union that doesn?t have any of the baggage the IBT brings to the table?it will be a shoe-in.
Cheers
WL
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The in-house union has no bite . The ibt is the only one that can control ricci. He is ruthless and a law breaker. Please stop drinking the ricci cool aid
 
Flex605 said:
The in-house union has no bite . The ibt is the only one that can control ricci. He is ruthless and a law breaker. Please stop drinking the ricci cool aid
Click to expand...


And Ricci knows the IBT is the only organization that has any bite hence he will fight it to the end.
 
15th of 48 laws of power

Crush your enemy totally

All great leaders since Moses have known that a feared enemy must be crushed completely. Sometimes they have learned this the hard way. If one ember is left alight, no matter how dimly it smolders, a fire will eventually break out. More is lost through stopping halfway than through total annihilation. The enemy will recover, and will seek revenge. Crush him, not only in body but in spirit.
 
Not even a mention of the totally excellent "bonus" KR has bestowed on FJ?

Surely someone watched the meeting and can enlighten us.

and Cabbie, what's with all the zen? Did you get a bad batch of fortune cookies?
 
1% bonus this year.

Taken the family out for corn dogs when(if?) it actually gets payed
 

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