Im Ready, UNION AT FLEX

[slowtation capt]

To the pilots that sent me the message last night and the others working behind the scenes, thank you. I have seen and heard enough. Our de facto agreement with old management no longer exist. Our contract with new management is worthless according to the people that shoved it down our throats. I fell off the fence a month ago and other pilots that I have known for almost 2 decades that have not sent in cards in the past are sending them in now. All of these guys are good, well liked and respected people. They, like me have invested a lot of time, effort, blood, sweat and tears to the success of this company. Now, some corporate raider with borrowed money that views us as a cost and not assets, is telling us to like his $hit sandwich or leave. He is a lying greedy man that is deceiving and manipulating this pilot group with false promises that will not come true. Think of what we were being told 18 months ago and what we are being told now. Four months ago we were arguing about uniforms. Make no mistake, you are being lied to and your families are being stolen from with more bad stuff coming down the pike. Consider this, look at what is being done to us when the company is supposedly doing very well. Wait until the next economic downturn. Do you think our new owners will settle for a lower rate of return on their investment or will we be given paycuts with a loss of benefits like the 401k. He is going to keep taking from us until we stop him.
It is not my job to try and convince Flex pilots to send their cards in or not and I would be wasting my time if I tried. Other pilots have taken up that mantle and stuck their necks out for us. But all Flex pilots should be on the IBT message board so you can become more informed and discuss your future in a more closed protected enviroment. There are friendly people over there unlike that dirtbag FR8DOG that frequent this board.
Integration, the main concern for organizing is going to happen anyway so we better have a seat at the table. Right now, no one is looking out for us. See you on the IBT board and good luck to all of us.

excellent post and just to remind everyone, the address is www.forum .ibt1108.org

 

[Fresh Air]

"Status quo" for Flexjet pilots

Once "status quo " takes effect, DAC management can't mess with your pay or benefits anymore. This is a just and sensible law, that keeps management from being able to punish an employee group for exercising their legal right to organize.

But I can't remember, does status quo take effect as soon as a representation vote is announced, or is it when the results are tallied and the result is in favor of representation? Can someone help me out on this?

Either way, the more quickly you Flex crews can get to that point, the less time Kenn and his minions have to erode your pay, benefits, and quality of life.

 

[FraxJockey]

Does status quo apply if there is already a CBA in effect? If the pilots join the 1108 and the Flight Options 1108 call for a single carrier determination before that happens, then don't we have to vote a) Union out b)1108 for all or c)Some other union in? If we vote 1108 for all, they already have a CBA in effect. Are we not bound by it until a new one is negotiated? Where is there info to determine this?

 

[Cautious Belly]

Does status quo apply if there is already a CBA in effect? If the pilots join the 1108 and the Flight Options 1108 call for a single carrier determination before that happens, then don't we have to vote a) Union out b)1108 for all or c)Some other union in? If we vote 1108 for all, they already have a CBA in effect. Are we not bound by it until a new one is negotiated? Where is there info to determine this?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is no scenario whereby Flexjet pilots would have to work under the OPS CBA. If there is a finding of common carrier status, and LXJ does vote to be represented by the 1108, we would be represented by the same local of the same union, under status quo conditions until a CBA is voted upon and passed.

That CBA would have to be acceptable to LXJ pilots because LXJ is the larger group.

 

[doh]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is no scenario whereby Flexjet pilots would have to work under the OPS CBA. If there is a finding of common carrier status, and LXJ does vote to be represented by the 1108, we would be represented by the same local of the same union, under status quo conditions until a CBA is voted upon and passed.

That CBA would have to be acceptable to LXJ pilots because LXJ is the larger group.

That is mostly correct. If DAC can show a "legitimate business need" to change our rules, I believe they may make changes. However, simply wanting to increase profits is not a legitimate business need. Think financial need to save the company. Since we had our best year according to management, that will be difficult to show.

 

[bluepost]

There is absolutely zero reason to not send in a card....even if you have zero intention of ever voting yes for a union. Once the drive is started management tends to come out with some gifts to try and win over the group to avoid a union. Those "volunteered" offers if handled appropriately will become the floor of your negotiations. If the union isn't voted in you get to enjoy those gifts.....until the company reneges on them.

 

[chaching]

To the pilots that sent me the message last night and the others working behind the scenes, thank you. I have seen and heard enough. Our de facto agreement with old management no longer exist. Our contract with new management is worthless according to the people that shoved it down our throats. I fell off the fence a month ago and other pilots that I have known for almost 2 decades that have not sent in cards in the past are sending them in now. All of these guys are good, well liked and respected people. They, like me have invested a lot of time, effort, blood, sweat and tears to the success of this company. Now, some corporate raider with borrowed money that views us as a cost and not assets, is telling us to like his $hit sandwich or leave. He is a lying greedy man that is deceiving and manipulating this pilot group with false promises that will not come true. Think of what we were being told 18 months ago and what we are being told now. Four months ago we were arguing about uniforms. Make no mistake, you are being lied to and your families are being stolen from with more bad stuff coming down the pike. Consider this, look at what is being done to us when the company is supposedly doing very well. Wait until the next economic downturn. Do you think our new owners will settle for a lower rate of return on their investment or will we be given paycuts with a loss of benefits like the 401k. He is going to keep taking from us until we stop him.
It is not my job to try and convince Flex pilots to send their cards in or not and I would be wasting my time if I tried. Other pilots have taken up that mantle and stuck their necks out for us. But all Flex pilots should be on the IBT message board so you can become more informed and discuss your future in a more closed protected enviroment. There are friendly people over there unlike that dirtbag FR8DOG that frequent this board.
Integration, the main concern for organizing is going to happen anyway so we better have a seat at the table. Right now, no one is looking out for us. See you on the IBT board and good luck to all of us.

excellent post, sums it up for me

KR has no credibility, any FJ guys that chose to believe anything he says are living in denial

I suggest to anyone still on the fence to look at everything collectively...all the lies we have been told and all the misinformation we have been given and to remember that we are still in the "honeymoon" phase of our DAC acquisition....

 

[slowtation capt]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is no scenario whereby Flexjet pilots would have to work under the OPS CBA. If there is a finding of common carrier status, and LXJ does vote to be represented by the 1108, we would be represented by the same local of the same union, under status quo conditions until a CBA is voted upon and passed.

That CBA would have to be acceptable to LXJ pilots because LXJ is the larger group.

Correct, if A: Flex votes 1108 in, they can start negotiating a contract for the flex pilot. Flops stays under their cba, flex negotiates their own cba. When single carrier is determined, a new cba that covers flex and Options together as 1 is negotiated. If B: Single carrier is determined before flex votes 1108, Flex goes status quo, options stays under cba, a new cba that covers flex and Options is negotiated.

 

[chainring]

I can understand you guys wanting to protect your pay but the reality is Union or no Union the Salary's you have now won't be there in the future. He's never going to agree to paying that kind of money and I doubt it will be able to be negotiated. The question is do you want to negotiate the best possible contract we can get and also have work rules and job protections that can't be taken away.

I think you guys keep thinking that somehow your going to be able to keep your pay scale and it's just not KR style to pay that kind of money and have that many extra crews. He will pay a small percentage of very top senior guys some money but after about 15 to 20 on the seniority list he's never going to pay it out.

 

[doh]

I can understand you guys wanting to protect your pay but the reality is Union or no Union the Salary's you have now won't be there in the future. He's never going to agree to paying that kind of money and I doubt it will be able to be negotiated. The question is do you want to negotiate the best possible contract we can get and also have work rules and job protections that can't be taken away.

I think you guys keep thinking that somehow your going to be able to keep your pay scale and it's just not KR style to pay that kind of money and have that many extra crews. He will pay a small percentage of very top senior guys some money but after about 15 to 20 on the seniority list he's never going to pay it out.

That is definitely in his book. But I think your selling negotiations short with that outlook.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

I can understand you guys wanting to protect your pay but the reality is Union or no Union the Salary's you have now won't be there in the future. He's never going to agree to paying that kind of money and I doubt it will be able to be negotiated. The question is do you want to negotiate the best possible contract we can get and also have work rules and job protections that can't be taken away.

I think you guys keep thinking that somehow your going to be able to keep your pay scale and it's just not KR style to pay that kind of money and have that many extra crews. He will pay a small percentage of very top senior guys some money but after about 15 to 20 on the seniority list he's never going to pay it out.

Oh, just be quiet, Kenn!!

 

[el raton]

Looks like the top of the seniority list is gonna screw us. They're starting to band together and voice their support for Flex in the interest of self-preservation.


Man I feel stabbed in the back by some of our pilots. You ********************ing work your ass off for a company to succeed and your reward is: "if you don't like the coming changes, then leave!".


These are the same idiot pilots who tell everyone to read "who moved my cheese". I'm so sick of hearing about the damned book. If they want to work for a "delta elite" type company, then go!

 

[pilotyip]

Looks like the top of the seniority list is gonna screw us. They're starting to band together and voice their support for Flex in the interest of self-preservation.


Man I feel stabbed in the back by some of our pilots. You ********************ing work your ass off for a company to succeed and your reward is: "if you don't like the coming changes, then leave!".


These are the same idiot pilots who tell everyone to read "who moved my cheese". I'm so sick of hearing about the damned book. If they want to work for a "delta elite" type company, then go!

That is the beauty of union shop. The top 50.01 % get to enforce what is good for them onto the 49.99% who don't like it.

 

[Praetorian]

Looks like the top of the seniority list is gonna screw us. They're starting to band together and voice their support for Flex in the interest of self-preservation.


Man I feel stabbed in the back by some of our pilots. You ********************ing work your ass off for a company to succeed and your reward is: "if you don't like the coming changes, then leave!".


These are the same idiot pilots who tell everyone to read "who moved my cheese". I'm so sick of hearing about the damned book. If they want to work for a "delta elite" type company, then go!

How is that "screwing you"? Sounds to me like they are trying to save you.

I get it that you're not an enthusiastic union supporter. I know a lot of guys who were just like you until they finally had enough. Enough of the lies, the deceptions, the attempts at misdirection. Now that you've had a taste of what we've been living with at FO. Now that everything we've been trying to tell you over the past year has come more clearly into focus, don't you think it's time we stopped sniping at each other on here and band together, all of us, to save our collective a$$es from Lord Farquaad? ?

http://youtu.be/ufdOgPKnflc

 

[el raton]

How is that "screwing you"? Sounds to me like they are trying to save you.

I get it that you're not an enthusiastic union supporter. I know a lot of guys who were just like you until they finally had enough. Enough of the lies, the deceptions, the attempts at misdirection. Now that you've had a taste of what we've been living with at FO. Now that everything we've been trying to tell you over the past year has come more clearly into focus, don't you think it's time we stopped sniping at each other on here and band together, all of us, to save our collective a$$es from Lord Farquaad? ?

http://youtu.be/ufdOgPKnflc

I didn't make myself clear. They're banding together in support of KR and his ideas.

We don't change their views we'll all be headed for a Dedicated Crew.