Im Ready, UNION AT FLEX

[pcab]

I have been at Flex 17 years. Never though I needed a Union, but after loosing 3 PTO days, designated crew, uniform changes and now the 3% we had added to the 401K as a company bonus gone. I need to protect what I have before it is to late. I hear there will be pay cuts....
Someone put a union card in front of me.....

 

[JetFlex]

Seconded

 

[justmeinmsp]

Ding ding ding

 

[el raton]

I have been at Flex 17 years. Never though I needed a Union, but after loosing 3 PTO days, designated crew, uniform changes and now the 3% we had added to the 401K as a company bonus gone. I need to protect what I have before it is to late. I hear there will be pay cuts....
Someone put a union card in front of me.....

I've been out of the loop for awhile. Was this announced, if so when and where?

 

[John MClain]

Just a quick word to those who haven't frequented this forum in a while. There is every indication that yours, mine and or anybody else's identities are not protected.

Nuff said.

 

[The Architect]

Right to Choose

Just a quick word to those who haven't frequented this forum in a while. There is every indication that yours, mine and or anybody else's identities are not protected.

Nuff said.

Perhaps reasonable advice. However, employees have certain rights. And concern over loss of anonymity should not deter one from making and pursuing a choice.

Section 2, Fourth of the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. Sec. 152,
Fourth, states:
"Employees shall have the right to organize and
bargain collectively through representatives of their own
choosing. . . . No carrier, its officers, or agents shall deny or in
any way question the right of its employees to join, organize, or
assist in organizing the labor organization of their choice, and it
shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the
organization of its employees, or to use the funds of the carrier
in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organization,
labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining,
or in performing any work therefore, or to influence or
coerce employees in an effort to induce them to join or remain
or not to join or remain members of any labor organization . . ."​

This means it is illegal and a violation of federal law for any
airline or another union to interfere with or coerce its employees
in their decision to form or join a union. It's critical to
document any coercion or harassment, regardless of who is
doing it, as this is a violation of your employee rights under
the RLA.

 

[pilotyip]

Perhaps reasonable advice. However, employees have certain rights. And concern over loss of anonymity should not deter one from making and pursuing a choice.

Section 2, Fourth of the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. Sec. 152,
Fourth, states:
"Employees shall have the right to organize and
bargain collectively through representatives of their own
choosing. . . . No carrier, its officers, or agents shall deny or in
any way question the right of its employees to join, organize, or
assist in organizing the labor organization of their choice, and it
shall be unlawful for any carrier to interfere in any way with the
organization of its employees, or to use the funds of the carrier
in maintaining or assisting or contributing to any labor organization,
labor representative, or other agency of collective bargaining,
or in performing any work therefore, or to influence or
coerce employees in an effort to induce them to join or remain
or not to join or remain members of any labor organization . . ."​

This means it is illegal and a violation of federal law for any
airline or another union to interfere with or coerce its employees
in their decision to form or join a union. It's critical to
document any coercion or harassment, regardless of who is
doing it, as this is a violation of your employee rights under
the RLA.

But companies can run their own informational messages. Have all hands meetings to discuss what the compnay does for it employees, and it can hire outside consulting compnies to help in this process. This is not considered harassment.

 

[exagony]

That sounds like things are getting bad at Flex.... wish you best of luck... how does the whole process work?

 

[jetwash]

That sounds like things are getting bad at Flex.... wish you best of luck... how does the whole process work?

All this is happening during the honeymoon period.
It makes you wonder what is coming down the pipe if the union is voted out.

 

[2dotslow]

Slow down guys. Nothing bad has happened. Think about what's really important as a crewmember (not goofy uniforms......).

 

[exagony]

Slow down guys. Nothing bad has happened. Think about what's really important as a crewmember (not goofy uniforms......).

Think the concern my friends at Flex have is that once "bad stuff' starts to happen that it will be too late to recover what is taken away

 

[luckydog]

Think the concern my friends at Flex have is that once "bad stuff' starts to happen that it will be too late to recover what is taken away

Some people are confused about the way the process works. After representatoon is voted in, both sides start from scratch on the contract. There is absolutely no guarantee of retaining or regaining what we have now.

Given that the Flight Options crews are already represented by the IBT, it's quite probable that their current contract will be used as a starting point.

 

[realityman]

Some people are confused about the way the process works. After representatoon is voted in, both sides start from scratch on the contract. There is absolutely no guarantee of retaining or regaining what we have now.

Given that the Flight Options crews are already represented by the IBT, it's quite probable that their current contract will be used as a starting point.

There is NEVER a guarantee of anything when negotiating a union contract. A great deal depends on the strength and resolve of the union members.

However, with no union you are GUARANTEED to be at the mercy of whatever direction management decides the wind blows that day. I'm already hearing complaints about things KR has altered and/or taken away from the Flex guys. Maybe they're little things, maybe not. But knowing KR, it's just the beginning.

You folks will have to decide what's best for yourselves. Maybe a union isn't needed. But I know KR and my gut tells me you very badly need a union.

I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

 

[JetFlex]

Some people are confused about the way the process works. After representatoon is voted in, both sides start from scratch on the contract. There is absolutely no guarantee of retaining or regaining what we have now.

Given that the Flight Options crews are already represented by the IBT, it's quite probable that their current contract will be used as a starting point.

I admit confusion over the process. However, my understanding since we are currently two different companies is that if FJ chooses to unionize, the salary and benefits must be frozen at the their current level once the company has been given notice of a vote. Is that not correct?

 

[BE40Driver]

That is NOT correct!! Anything can change till a CBA is signed. Sorry Folks!

 

[luckydog]

Technically, during the status quo period nothing is supposed to change, but it's more likely that...

Anything can change till a CBA is signed.

 

[doh]

Slow down guys. Nothing bad has happened. Think about what's really important as a crewmember (not goofy uniforms......).

1/3 of the 401k just got taken away. You consider that "nothing bad"? It's unconscionable.

 

[doh]

All this is happening during the honeymoon period.
It makes you wonder what is coming down the pipe if the union is voted out.

The honeymoon was the first year. It's over.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Some people are confused about the way the process works. After representatoon is voted in, both sides start from scratch on the contract. There is absolutely no guarantee of retaining or regaining what we have now.

Given that the Flight Options crews are already represented by the IBT, it's quite probable that their current contract will be used as a starting point.

Yes lucky, some people are confused and that includes you. We have a contract that is AMENDABLE. Flex starts from scratch. No way we want you to fall under our pay scale, so go back and do your homework. But then again you got that talking point straight from the lawyers.

 

[japhy]

Seconded

Thirded. Lets get this thing rolling.

 

[luckydog]

Yes lucky, some people are confused and that includes you. We have a contract that is AMENDABLE. Flex starts from scratch. No way we want you to fall under our pay scale, so go back and do your homework. But then again you got that talking point straight from the lawyers.

GC we all know you are the smartest guy on Flight Info but before you start sounding like a condescending pr!ck you should re-read my post.

I said that we will start from nothing, not from our current FOM, with no guarantee of anything.

I know what AMENDABLE is. I know how a contract works. I've worked under one before. This is not my first time to go through this process, in fact it won't even be my second time.

Your jab about 'the lawyers' exhibits all the class and humility that makes the IBT famous.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Even now, you're saying you need something else to be taken away before a union card drive is started. – realityman

This single sentence sums up the anti-union sentiment.

1/3 of your 401(k) just got stolen. You didn’t really expect uncle to pay for those new uniforms out of his pocket did you?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Lucky in post #12 you stated we both start from scratch, then you claim you know how a contract works and its amendable. Those are contradictory statements. I'm sorry you feel that I took a condescending tone to your post but, I like to deal in facts not emotion. BTW I don't speak for the IBT.

 

[luckydog]

Lucky in post #12 you stated we both start from scratch, then you claim you know how a contract works and its amendable. Those are contradictory statements. I'm sorry you feel that I took a condescending tone to your post but, I like to deal in facts not emotion. BTW I don't speak for the IBT.

You were not part of the 'we'.

IF the FJ pilots decide to join the IBT then I believe you are correct and your current contract would be AMENDABLE, to include FJ crews.

IF the FJ crews decide the IBT isn't in their best interest then I believe WE would start from scratch.

The emotions you try to sell to FJ crews are fear and panic. We've got plenty of that already.

Without emotion, specifically what is the integration plan and what are the fence agreements being discussed... and who is involved from the FJ side.

You don't speak got the IBT, great; don't say I speak for the f'ing lawyers, I don't.

 

[slowtation capt]

Without emotion, specifically what is the integration plan and what are the fence agreements being discussed... and who is involved from the FJ side.

Hasn't been said has to what they are discussing.
Last time over 2 months now, it was Deanna and Jason from FJ.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

lucky, let me try to clarify things for you again. You are not covered under our CBA! You are still at will employees. The negotiating team is working to protect the Flex pilots, prior to a maybe pilot seniority list merger. Right now your azz is hanging in the breeze, and despite all of the negative feedback from a minority of your pilots, the 1108 is trying to protect the majority of the Flex pilots. Are Flex pilots about to get hurt? Yes, but the negotiated settlement is better that a unilateral deal from Uncle Kenn.

 

[luckydog]

lucky, let me try to clarify things for you again. You are not covered under our CBA! You are still at will employees. The negotiating team is working to protect the Flex pilots, prior to a maybe pilot seniority list merger. Right now your azz is hanging in the breeze, and despite all of the negative feedback from a minority of your pilots, the 1108 is trying to protect the majority of the Flex pilots. Are Flex pilots about to get hurt? Yes, but the negotiated settlement is better that a unilateral deal from Uncle Kenn.

You statement of the obvious is unnecessary. The 1108 isn't trying to protect me, they're trying to protect themselves from making an agreement that won't stand up in court. Breach of fiduciary trust is a big deal. They can't protect people that aren't members without risking being sued by their own pilots.

As to your last statement, I'm not convinced that Kenn's deal will be that much worse than the 'protection' the 1108 is trying to provide.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

If Kenn's deal was really not that bad, we wouldn't have ended up this the Teamsters!

 

[Biker Rob]

lucky, let me try to clarify things for you again. You are not covered under our CBA! You are still at will employees. The negotiating team is working to protect the Flex pilots, prior to a maybe pilot seniority list merger. Right now your azz is hanging in the breeze, and despite all of the negative feedback from a minority of your pilots, the 1108 is trying to protect the majority of the Flex pilots. Are Flex pilots about to get hurt? Yes, but the negotiated settlement is better that a unilateral deal from Uncle Kenn.

You... You... You don't.... I'm sorry, its just really hard to type when I'm laughing this hard. You don't really believe that do you?

And to Doh, 1/3 of our 401k was "stolen"? That is so ignorant and wrong its hardly worth acknowledging. Suffice to say its not true.

And to whoever started this thread.... Do you even work for FJ? With all of the misinformation, lies and fear coming form a very vocal minority of FLOPS guys it would seem right up their alley.

Well I do work for FJ and although I am no particular fan of KR, I will never vote for a union at FJ. My resume is dusted off and ready to go. Not because things are bad here at Flex, not because I'm afraid they will get bad, but because if a union ever does get voted in it will be my last day at Flex. I will not work in the adversarial atmosphere that unions create.

Unlike most of you I have no sense of entitlement. I do not expect to sit at one company my entire career while my paychecks get bigger and my responsibilities get lighter. This is a fractional not an airline.

 

[realityman]

You... You... You don't.... I'm sorry, its just really hard to type when I'm laughing this hard. You don't really believe that do you?

And to Doh, 1/3 of our 401k was "stolen"? That is so ignorant and wrong its hardly worth acknowledging. Suffice to say its not true.

And to whoever started this thread.... Do you even work for FJ? With all of the misinformation, lies and fear coming form a very vocal minority of FLOPS guys it would seem right up their alley.

Well I do work for FJ and although I am no particular fan of KR, I will never vote for a union at FJ. My resume is dusted off and ready to go. Not because things are bad here at Flex, not because I'm afraid they will get bad, but because if a union ever does get voted in it will be my last day at Flex. I will not work in the adversarial atmosphere that unions create.

Unlike most of you I have no sense of entitlement. I do not expect to sit at one company my entire career while my paychecks get bigger and my responsibilities get lighter. This is a fractional not an airline.

I was going to stay off this thread. I'm not an employee at FJ or Flops, but then I read this and nearly fell off my chair laughing!

Ths is great stuff! Biker, you should change your screen name to "Battered Wife".

Let me sum up your post for you:

"Hi, I'm just a crappy pilot who doesnt believe I have a lot of worth to my company. Hey, if they want to reduce my retirement I'm fine with that. Furthermore, the skills and experience I continue to accrue year after year don't merit any corresponding increase in pay. I'm as good now as I was the day I got my license! Really, flight instructor pay is fine because I've not learned a single thing and improved since those days. Furthermore, if any entity, such as a union, should come along and try to improve my pay, working conditions, and QOL I will be on my way to fly at some place that knows my true value, like Mesa or Great Lakes (I really hope Great Lakes still makes me pay to work there at first!). Good luck to all you losers who think your skills are worth something! Bwahahahaha!"

Did I hit all the high points?

Don't worry folks. At NJA we heard the same thing from a lot of the NJI folks at first. "If I have to join the union, I'm outta here!". Thing is, after the integration and management became more and more abusive (no, it doesn't happen overnight), these same folks (weren't they supposed to be leaving right away?) were suddenly incredibly glad they had union protections.

Happy New Year everyone!! Here's to a healthy and prosperous 2015 and beyond!