I'm done. (NWA/DAL)

[DTW320]

Although we, (I voted no) did pass the pos contract that kept our pensions, many NWA pilots will not even get beer money at retirement.

At the top seniority, pilots will get a lump sum of the excess over the TEFLA limits of about 250k, and then rake in 13000 per month...

The rest of us are on a declining amount based on your seniority with the most junior getting less than 100 per month!

After being hired in early 1995, My Wife and I will be raking in about 3000 per month in 2022.



I think my social security will be worth more.

It would have been better if we canceled the pension and received a large settlement check similar to DAL.

Agreed.

It is hilarious that some here suggest that DAL should be given favor in the SLI based on the idea that NWA pilots have a frozen DB plan. First of all, it is something that can be terminated with the stroke of a judge's pen in a future BK. Would NWA's penalized seniority, based on our perceived pension advantage, "snap back" or be recalculated at that time in the future? Yeah, Right. Second, if Lee wants to use that logic then we would have to analyze and assign a value to the $ they received when their plan was terminated. I never hear him mention that.....

Anyway, my wager is on a last-minute negotiated SLI as it gets close to ruling date. If so, my bet is that it won't look much like EITHER side's current positions.

 

[General Lee]

Agreed.

It is hilarious that some here suggest that DAL should be given favor in the SLI based on the idea that NWA pilots have a frozen DB plan. First of all, it is something that can be terminated with the stroke of a judge's pen in a future BK. Would NWA's penalized seniority, based on our perceived pension advantage, "snap back" or be recalculated at that time in the future? Yeah, Right. Second, if Lee wants to use that logic then we would have to analyze and assign a value to the $ they received when their plan was terminated. I never hear him mention that.....

Anyway, my wager is on a last-minute negotiated SLI as it gets close to ruling date. If so, my bet is that it won't look much like EITHER side's current positions.

Ill take that bet. You went for the moon on one side, and we went for the middle ground based on what planes you will bring or retract from the table. If we initially went for a STAPLE, then we would meet in the middle probably. Thanks to one of your guys spilling the beans on the internet, now our side has seen Dalpa's proposed list, and if we negoatiate anything SIGNIFICANT away from that, it will be a loss on our side, and that won't be well received at all, and some of the MEC guys will be axed. It would be great to negotiate something, but something that is fair and represents what we truely bring to the table--both of us. It's gonna look a lot like relative seniority, me thinks.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

What replacement a/c? Are you referring to something that has not even been ordered yet and does not appear in any business plan? That'll carry a lot of weight.

Ask your MEC. They are the ones who stated the replacement aircraft was a 77-110 seater. If you don't have a replacement in mind for your retiring fleet of short range, small gauge, low paying 36 year old DC-9s, all the more reason to staple those positions to the bottom.

You said what mattered was size. Yours seat 124 with less first class seats than any DC9. Our -50's seat 125 with 16 F/C.

Great, you cram more folks into a smaller tube, on an older and less capable airframe.

The 737-700, is larger, certified for 149 passengers, can take them further and pays more than the DC-9. The DC-9 position, for the short period it will still be around, will be the most junior lowest paying position on the property, on the oldest, least capable and shortest range aircraft, those positions belong on the bottom of the combined list.

 

[DTW320]

Ill take that bet.

Which one? That it will end up as a negotiated deal instead of an arbitrated one? Or that it will not look much like anything on the table now? And what's the wager? A cold 420 at the Sweetwater Brew House on B concourse(in civiies after a trip of course) or a plate of russian roulette oysters at Spondivit's?

You went for the moon on one side,You haven't seen our proposal yet inclusive of the conditions and restrictions and we went for the middle ground based on what planes you will bring or retract from the table In your opinion...naturally. If we initially went for a STAPLE, then we would meet in the middle probably. Thanks to one of your guys spilling the beans on the internet, It was/is an open hearing! Your saying that your comittee's plan was to keep you guys in the dark so that you would never know how much they had to compromise?Wow!now our side has seen Dalpa's proposed list, and if we negoatiate anything SIGNIFICANT away from that, it will be a loss on our side, and that won't be well received at all, and some of the MEC guys will be axed.

 

[DTW320]

Great, you cram more folks into a smaller tube, on an older and less capable airframe.

The 737-700, is larger, certified for 149 passengers, can take them further and pays more than the DC-9. The DC-9 position, for the short period it will still be around, will be the most junior lowest paying position on the property, on the oldest, least capable and shortest range aircraft, those positions belong on the bottom of the combined list.

Using your exact logic, please advise DALPA to revise their proposed list to reflect the top 451 positions being NWA due to the 747-400. IF you say B.S. due to the 744 pay = 777 pay then please revise your post to eliminate your references to number of seats, age, and range. Thanks

 

[General Lee]

Which one? That it will end up as a negotiated deal instead of an arbitrated one? Or that it will not look much like anything on the table now?

I think it may be negotiated, but it won't look even close to DOH, more like relative seniority. Also it was an open forum, but someone on your side released it onto the internet with a lot of important personal info on it. There are plenty of open hearings at criminal trials too, but that doesn't mean the info is released on the internet. And you think that by asking for DOH we would automatically compromise? We should have asked for the staple, and then we would have come to our current proposal as middle ground...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skystud25]

Using your exact logic, please advise DALPA to revise their proposed list to reflect the top 451 positions being NWA due to the 747-400.

Yeah General, you forgot about the Super Duper Premium airplanes. Did you forget how special they are?

DTW, the 9' is on the bottom of the proposed list because it's going away, not because it's the least Super Duper, so why the special status for the 400?

Even the arbitrators know this "Super" tag is BS. From the transcripts, one of them asked the Delta side if they'd ever heard of this "Super Premium" phrase being used anywhere else in the industry, the response was "Uhhhhh, no." Too funny!

 

[DTW320]

DTW, the 9' is on the bottom of the proposed list because it's going away, Says who? When? Please provide a reference. I can provide one of RA saying they aren't going anywhere.Have you seen the price of oil lately? Is the mission of the 737-700 domestic 100-125 seat flying?not because it's the least Super Duper,your buddies here say that's exactly why it's on the bottom so why the special status for the 400?Because each one is 50% bigger than DAL's largest A/C, and we have 60% more of them than DAL has 777's?

BTW, I'm on record here as saying that the "aircraft superlatives" being thrown around are hilarious.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They are. It is all quite funny, but as stated FDJ2 has a point.
Two to two and a half years max on those 40 and 50 series 9's. (Assuming the business plan does not change again)

 

[skystud25]

BTW, I'm on record here as saying that the "aircraft superlatives" being thrown around are hilarious.

Fair enough on the superlatives.

As for RA saying they weren't going anywhere, I think as he said that he was saying in his head "not in the first few months, anyway." Those airplanes do not have a future at the new Delta.

Looking forward to getting out on the road with you guys/gals, although it's sounding like it may take awhile with all this "fence" business.