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I'm done. (NWA/DAL)

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FmrFrieghtDog,

It has been fun. See you on the flip side. Don't blame you.

Regards,
~~~^~~~
 
Here we go again....

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.
Um no, I would lose over 500 numbers and change my career expectations with the DAL plan. (Not to mention a DAL pilot that started at DAL 8 years after I started at NWA would be senior to me). And that too is my last post on the NWA/DAL steaming pile until it is over (not that I post that often anyway). C ya after 22 Nov.
 
What folks fail to remember in comparing DAL/NWA to US/AWA is that the demographics (which determine how long someone suffers under the solution) are far more similar in the DAL/NWA case. Plus the total numbers of pilots in the NWA/DAL case helps to buffer the effects of an integration solution. A loss of 400 numbers in an airline with, what 12,000 pilots, is alot different than that same number with only 5000 pilots.

If the NMB determines single carrier before the integration, then whichever sides has the numbers has won the ability to force their plan down the otherside's throat. That's the lesson to learn from US/AWA
 
Okie dokie. I understand now. It would be a travesty to your current seniority and career expectations to lose 400 but for a northwest pilot to lose over a 1000 because we have no expectations is fair. Got ya. If you don't see the hypocracy in this statement and this is the feeling of the delta merger comm. I expect that there is no chance of a consenual agreement. You see, straight doh is not fair to the majority of your list and dalpas proposal is seen as unfair to us. IMHO the arbitrators should pick the middle ground. Even with that I will lose 500 numbers and within that 500 I am sure that some will be younger than I am, thus ending my expectation of being #1 as I currently have.



Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.
 
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Okie dokie. I understand now. It would be a travesty to your current seniority and career expectations to lose 400 but for a northwest pilot to lose over a 1000 because we have no expectations is fair. Got ya. If you don't see the hypocracy in this statement and this is the feeling of the delta merger comm. I expect that there is no chance of a consenual agreement. You see, straight doh is not fair to the majority of your list and dalpas proposal is seen as unfair to us. IMHO the arbitrators should pick the middle ground. Even with that I will lose 500 numbers and within that 500 I am sure that some will be younger than I am, thus ending my expectation of being #1 as I currently have.


If we wanted the arbitrators to pick the "middle ground", we would have started with a STAPLE. You guys went for the grandslam, and we went with something that was fairly realistic. It will be a lot closer to ours than yours. You can't deny the fact that the 742s are gone soon, and half or more of your DC9s. That is figured into our proposal, and then it is pretty much relative seniority, which USAir got. It is hard to fight the logic there. Fences too will keep the greenbooks bidding your own widebodies, which should have happened anyway. Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s---and rightful seniority will finally prevail on those 744s.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
If we wanted the arbitrators to pick the "middle ground", we would have started with a STAPLE. You guys went for the grandslam, and we went with something that was fairly realistic. It will be a lot closer to ours than yours. You can't deny the fact that the 742s are gone soon, and half or more of your DC9s. That is figured into our proposal, and then it is pretty much relative seniority, which USAir got. It is hard to fight the logic there. Fences too will keep the greenbooks bidding your own widebodies, which should have happened anyway. Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s---and rightful seniority will finally prevail on those 744s.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yup, keep recycling those talking points...maybe in Neverland something becomes true if you repeat it often enough.

Nu
 
Yup, keep recycling those talking points...maybe in Neverland something becomes true if you repeat it often enough.

Nu

Compared to your talking points "DOH, 787, we're older, we are so much more profitable and bring in the money" etc? It sounds a lot like the old USAir East mantra except for the 787 part.

How about "we are the aquirer, we are bigger, we have more widebodies, we are expanding, and we are being more realistic?" Sounds more like it.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
(Not to mention a DAL pilot that started at DAL 8 years after I started at NWA would be senior to me).

Who cares? It doesn't matter when you were hired. What matters is that after this mess is sorted out you can have a position that is relatively close to what you had going in. The DAL proposal does that. We will see in a week what the NWA proposal is, but DOH doesn't even come close to keeping everyone relatively close to where they are at now. I'm waiting to see what conditions and restirctions the NWA guys propose before I make any decision on which proposal is the fairest. Maybe a DOH list with conditions and restrictions will work, we'll see in a week.
 
What matters is that after this mess is sorted out you can have a position that is relatively close to what you had going in.
How about being relatively close to pre-merger % 10 years from now?
The DAL proposal does that
Not hardly. Within 10 years the DAL proposal goes from approx. 1.6:1 to 4:1 in favor of DAL. After that it gets to 5:1 in favor of DAL. THAT won't fly. Nope.
Maybe a DOH list with conditions and restrictions will work, we'll see in a week.
Now you're talkin....:beer:
 
Compared to your talking points "DOH, 787, we're older, we are so much more profitable and bring in the money" etc? It sounds a lot like the old USAir East mantra except for the 787 part.

Or the making money part....how much was that DAL profit this quarter?

How about "we are the aquirer, we are bigger, we have more widebodies, we are expanding, and we are being more realistic?" Sounds more like it.

From the quarterly report:
"Delta said it is expecting a small loss in the fourth quarter, and is already starting to see "a little bit of demand softening" in its lucrative international business."

Sounds more like AIG....expand into bankruptcy.

Nu
 

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