I'm done. (NWA/DAL)

[FmrFreightDog]

And unlike "fins" multiple threats of the same ilk, I mean it. Between the NWA/DAL pissing match and the petty infighting that more or less invades every thread here, I've had enough. Problem is, I find myself compelled to post every once in a while when my emotion gets the better of my sense of restraint. I'm not going to post here anymore. Instead, I'll be reading books and working puzzles with my son. I'm not going to read anything here anymore. Instead, I'll be at the park with my family, or simply sitting on my couch drinking a beer and watching the last season of "The Shield".

An anonymous message board shouldn't affect your life away from the keyboard. The day you find yourself walking downstairs and b!tching to your wife about something you read here is the day you should hang it up (the General excluded...)

DAL guys.... NWA guys... good luck. I'll see you all a few weeks after Thanksgiving. I, for one, think we'll all be far more rational when the arbitrators tell us what we have to live with.

Good luck with the pissing contest. I'm way beyond thinking anything said on this forum is even remotely worthwhile... at least for the time being.....

Happy Halloween. Happy Thanksgiving. And perhaps Merry Christmas (depending on how all this goes). Enjoy your holidays with your family (single or double breasted). Lord knows, I intend to.....

 

[Hamburger]

.......................................

 

[Superpilot92]

And unlike "fins" multiple threats of the same ilk, I mean it. Between the NWA/DAL pissing match and the petty infighting that more or less invades every thread here, I've had enough. Problem is, I find myself compelled to post every once in a while when my emotion gets the better of my sense of restraint. I'm not going to post here anymore. Instead, I'll be reading books and working puzzles with my son. I'm not going to read anything here anymore. Instead, I'll be at the park with my family, or simply sitting on my couch drinking a beer and watching the last season of "The Shield".

An anonymous message board shouldn't affect your life away from the keyboard. The day you find yourself walking downstairs and b!tching to your wife about something you read here is the day you should hang it up (the General excluded...)

DAL guys.... NWA guys... good luck. I'll see you all a few weeks after Thanksgiving. I, for one, think we'll all be far more rational when the arbitrators tell us what we have to live with.

Good luck with the pissing contest. I'm way beyond thinking anything said on this forum is even remotely worthwhile... at least for the time being.....

Happy Halloween. Happy Thanksgiving. And perhaps Merry Christmas (depending on how all this goes). Enjoy your holidays with your family (single or double breasted). Lord knows, I intend to.....

I agree, its gotten pretty pointless hasn't it? With all the flamebait on this forum its tough to even have a decent discussion about anything.

 

[MCDU]

Just wait til the list comes out. Thats when the fun begins. So right now everyone take a break and hold your typing skills til the list comes out.

I hope there will be DOH with fences and protections to what each side brought. Otherwise it will be real ugly.

M

 

[XTW]

DAL guys.... NWA guys... good luck. I'll see you all a few weeks after Thanksgiving. I, for one, think we'll all be far more rational when the arbitrators tell us what we have to live with.

For your sake, I hope you're right. The USAir/AWA guys thought the same thing, and we see how that is playing out.


X

 

[9rj9]

yea but...

US Airways was bankrupt, everyone seems to forget that.

 

[maxblast72]

US Airways was bankrupt, everyone seems to forget that.

So was both Delta and Northwest less than 2 years ago, what is your point?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Trust me it will not be DOH or anywhere near that.

 

[nonstop]

Trust me it will not be DOH or anywhere near that.

Agreed 100%. Pure DOH would be a DAL windfall. It will be a DOH with conditions and restrictions.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FmrFrieghtDog,

It has been fun. See you on the flip side. Don't blame you.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[ExAF]

Here we go again....

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

Um no, I would lose over 500 numbers and change my career expectations with the DAL plan. (Not to mention a DAL pilot that started at DAL 8 years after I started at NWA would be senior to me). And that too is my last post on the NWA/DAL steaming pile until it is over (not that I post that often anyway). C ya after 22 Nov.

 

[Bringupthebird]

What folks fail to remember in comparing DAL/NWA to US/AWA is that the demographics (which determine how long someone suffers under the solution) are far more similar in the DAL/NWA case. Plus the total numbers of pilots in the NWA/DAL case helps to buffer the effects of an integration solution. A loss of 400 numbers in an airline with, what 12,000 pilots, is alot different than that same number with only 5000 pilots.

If the NMB determines single carrier before the integration, then whichever sides has the numbers has won the ability to force their plan down the otherside's throat. That's the lesson to learn from US/AWA

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Okie dokie. I understand now. It would be a travesty to your current seniority and career expectations to lose 400 but for a northwest pilot to lose over a 1000 because we have no expectations is fair. Got ya. If you don't see the hypocracy in this statement and this is the feeling of the delta merger comm. I expect that there is no chance of a consenual agreement. You see, straight doh is not fair to the majority of your list and dalpas proposal is seen as unfair to us. IMHO the arbitrators should pick the middle ground. Even with that I will lose 500 numbers and within that 500 I am sure that some will be younger than I am, thus ending my expectation of being #1 as I currently have.

Um no, I would loose well over 400 numbers with DOH. It would also significantly change my career expectations.

 

[General Lee]

Okie dokie. I understand now. It would be a travesty to your current seniority and career expectations to lose 400 but for a northwest pilot to lose over a 1000 because we have no expectations is fair. Got ya. If you don't see the hypocracy in this statement and this is the feeling of the delta merger comm. I expect that there is no chance of a consenual agreement. You see, straight doh is not fair to the majority of your list and dalpas proposal is seen as unfair to us. IMHO the arbitrators should pick the middle ground. Even with that I will lose 500 numbers and within that 500 I am sure that some will be younger than I am, thus ending my expectation of being #1 as I currently have.

If we wanted the arbitrators to pick the "middle ground", we would have started with a STAPLE. You guys went for the grandslam, and we went with something that was fairly realistic. It will be a lot closer to ours than yours. You can't deny the fact that the 742s are gone soon, and half or more of your DC9s. That is figured into our proposal, and then it is pretty much relative seniority, which USAir got. It is hard to fight the logic there. Fences too will keep the greenbooks bidding your own widebodies, which should have happened anyway. Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s---and rightful seniority will finally prevail on those 744s.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

If we wanted the arbitrators to pick the "middle ground", we would have started with a STAPLE. You guys went for the grandslam, and we went with something that was fairly realistic. It will be a lot closer to ours than yours. You can't deny the fact that the 742s are gone soon, and half or more of your DC9s. That is figured into our proposal, and then it is pretty much relative seniority, which USAir got. It is hard to fight the logic there. Fences too will keep the greenbooks bidding your own widebodies, which should have happened anyway. Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s---and rightful seniority will finally prevail on those 744s.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yup, keep recycling those talking points...maybe in Neverland something becomes true if you repeat it often enough.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Yup, keep recycling those talking points...maybe in Neverland something becomes true if you repeat it often enough.

Nu

Compared to your talking points "DOH, 787, we're older, we are so much more profitable and bring in the money" etc? It sounds a lot like the old USAir East mantra except for the 787 part.

How about "we are the aquirer, we are bigger, we have more widebodies, we are expanding, and we are being more realistic?" Sounds more like it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Truckdriver]

(Not to mention a DAL pilot that started at DAL 8 years after I started at NWA would be senior to me).

Who cares? It doesn't matter when you were hired. What matters is that after this mess is sorted out you can have a position that is relatively close to what you had going in. The DAL proposal does that. We will see in a week what the NWA proposal is, but DOH doesn't even come close to keeping everyone relatively close to where they are at now. I'm waiting to see what conditions and restirctions the NWA guys propose before I make any decision on which proposal is the fairest. Maybe a DOH list with conditions and restrictions will work, we'll see in a week.

 

[DTW320]

What matters is that after this mess is sorted out you can have a position that is relatively close to what you had going in.

How about being relatively close to pre-merger % 10 years from now?

The DAL proposal does that

Not hardly. Within 10 years the DAL proposal goes from approx. 1.6:1 to 4:1 in favor of DAL. After that it gets to 5:1 in favor of DAL. THAT won't fly. Nope.

Maybe a DOH list with conditions and restrictions will work, we'll see in a week.

Now you're talkin....:beer:

 

[NuGuy]

Compared to your talking points "DOH, 787, we're older, we are so much more profitable and bring in the money" etc? It sounds a lot like the old USAir East mantra except for the 787 part.

Or the making money part....how much was that DAL profit this quarter?

How about "we are the aquirer, we are bigger, we have more widebodies, we are expanding, and we are being more realistic?" Sounds more like it.

From the quarterly report:
"Delta said it is expecting a small loss in the fourth quarter, and is already starting to see "a little bit of demand softening" in its lucrative international business."

Sounds more like AIG....expand into bankruptcy.

Nu