Icao Atpl

[iaflyer]

I think that the posters question has been answered, but I though I'd add a link to ICAO's website, answering the question about ICAO Licenses.

ICAO Link

iaflyer

 

[Bumz_Rush]

You can hold a JAA and FAA Licence, and any other issuing state, and do not have to surrender anything. At one time I was holding an FAA ATP, a CAA ATPL, (replaced by a JAA ATP) and a Swiss ATPL. as wellas validations, for Ireland, Russia, and Bermuda. I am sure there are guys with many more licences and validations.

 

[80/20]

An ICAO ATPL is, as suggested in postings above, not a license issued by a specific state.
Two questions should be asked:
(1) What is an ICAO APTL?
(2) What might a foreign airline mean when they require an ICAO ATPL?

Countries that have signed the agreements to follow the Convention on International Civil Aviation may claim that their licenses are issued in accordance with ICAO standards. The ICAO standards for licensing are given in Annex 1 "Personnel Licensing" which is available for sale at http://www.icao.int/icao/en/sales.htm

ICAO require that each nation must publish their standards as a manual in a set format. This manual is called AIP (Aeronautical Information Publication). The FAA publishes AIP USA. This is just a reformatted version of the AIM with some additional information. One section of the AIP is called DIF (differences) and it lists any national deviations from the ICAO standards. This is where the problems starts for us (from the USA) because the FAA has a lot of differences from the ICAO standards. For starters the FAA calls it an ATP (Airline Transport Pilot Certificate) while ICAO and most other countries will call it ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot License). There are many other differences and the end result is that it is very time consuming to convert from FAA to many other countries. It is my experience that, at least in some cases, foreign airlines will not accept a FAA ATP when they require an ICAO ATPL. In other cases they will accept FAA certificates.

 

[boscenter]

If an employer specifically requires a JAA ATPL, "frozen," how does one go about converting FAA licenses as such? I've been told it's a difficult process, but I have been unable to find any details. Would this entail travelling to Europe, or could this be done in the U.S.?

 

[80/20]

___________________________
boscenter asked:
how does one go about converting FAA to JAA?
___________________________

Short answer:
You must take written tests and a check-ride. Alt least some of this may be done in the US, possible all of it, depending on the school. Schools like FlightSafety might possibly be able to do all of it in the US. (JAA frozen APTL = ATP written)


Long answer:
Unlike the FAA, the JAA will let you take the ATP written tests without having the required hours, and give a "frozen" ATPL. Some airlines will hire you with a JAA commercial and instrument rating (JAA-CPL/IR), and a frozen ATPL.

You can take a JAA license from scratch with groundschool, written tests, flight training and practical flight tests. A better option is to do a conversion where you will receive credits from previous flight time, training and certificates from other countries such as the USA. You do not have to give up your FAA certificates to get a JAA license. (Can have both.)

JAA makes the JARs (Joint Aviation Requirements) but each country have their own National European Authorities (NAAs), which runs independent national systems based on the JARs. A license given by any JAA memberstate have similar layout and are considered a JAA license.

A FAA pilot certificate can be converted to a JAA license. This is described in JAR-FCL-1 (The equivalence of FAR PART 61&141)

JAR-FCL states in part that: (Simplified with my personal explaining comments added):
The holder of an ATPL (such as an FAA ATP) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 may be exempted from the requirements to undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations (written tests) and the skill test (checkride).

This means that you don’t have to follow the entire course; you "just" to take the tests.

The skill test for the instrument rating (or ATPL) is to be taken in any JAA Member State at the discretion of the European Authority that approves the training. A FTO (European flight school) providing approved training for the instrument rating (or ATPL) outside JAA Member States will need to make arrangements for the approved course to include acclimatisation flying in the JAA Member State of the approving Authority (NAA) [or in the airspace of any JAA Member State at the discretion of the approving Authority] prior to any student taking the skill test (checkride).

The part about taking the checkride in "JAA airspace" and the approval at the discretion is handled differently by various countries. As an example, the Swiss appears to have delegated a high level of approval to a program that I believe is conducted at FlightSafety in Florida. Suggest you contact them for specific details.

The hardest part is the written tests. Both United States and European pilots have comparable safety records and the end product remains essentially the same. But training philosophies differ significantly. Large differences exist in the JAA ATPL groundschool. JAA require at least 650 hours of ATP groundschool in classroom or distance learning followed by more than ten theoretical written test. Unlike the FAA, the JAA does not publish the written tests. You can not just study exam questions in a test prep book. You need to know the text books in detail. The ATPL syllabus can be compared to a university level program.

You can download JAR-FCL from the JAA website at:
http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/42/20/422078/422078.pdf
this is a 1.73mb pdf file and the ATPL written tests are listed on pdf page 149 (Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.470 Theoretical knowledge examination subjects / sections and length of examinations – ATPL)
A more detailed explanation of the theoretical ATPL syllabus is found at:
http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/jar-fcl/jar-fcl_atpla_frame.html

A FAA-JAA harmonization committee are trying to simplify conversions but have not been able to agree yet. More information about this at:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regjaafaa.html

 

[boscenter]

Very informative... thanks!