IBT 1108 Executive Board Announcement

[Club ORD FO]

Right. The impression I'm under is that if the NMB rules single carrier, and then we vote, and if that outcome is no union, then we stay separate like we are now. Separate hiring and all. I can't point to an exact quote from a meeting or slide, but that's the impression I'm under. Maybe somebody else at flex can tell me if they have been told the same thing. And yes I'm aware that we could just be getting told that and it's not the real vision plan.

 

[ProFracPilot]

And yes I'm aware that we could just be getting told that and it's not the real vision plan.

Thank you for at least being open minded that the vision plan could be different than what you perceive it to be or have been led to believe it is.

I look at this from a business and logic point of view. A combined pilot group would save huge $$ to the operation, most of which goes directly to the bottom line. This is why I believe Kenn ultimately wants it that way.

Remember, it isn't anything personal. It's just bidness, folks.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

ProFracPilot - We will not remain separate, even if both pilot groups wanted to. Kenn doesn't want it (has stated so several times publicly), and OUR contract requires that there at least be a ruling by the NMB on the matter.

‘Xactly.

 

[luckydog]

I look at this from a business and logic point of view. A combined pilot group would save huge $$ to the operation, most of which goes directly to the bottom line.

How exactly does a single list save any money? We could all be on a single list and still operate the same way we do now.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Right. The impression I'm under is that if the NMB rules single carrier, and then we vote, and if that outcome is no union, then we stay separate like we are now. Separate hiring and all. I can't point to an exact quote from a meeting or slide, but that's the impression I'm under. Maybe somebody else at flex can tell me if they have been told the same thing. And yes I'm aware that we could just be getting told that and it's not the real vision plan.

If we are ruled single carrier by the NMB a vote for representation must take place.

If we vote for no representation the union would be out.

The pilots and management would then merge the pilot group with the McCaskill-Bond ruling as a guide. Having a union has nothing to do with MB. We would both be air carriers, so it would apply to us.

The only way for us to remain separate is for there not to be a single carrier ruling.

I for one am tired of the FO pilots holding the threat of their crappy union over our heads. If they petition to the NMB today I would be very happy. I believe there is about a 99% chance that the IBT would not win the ensuing vote.

Ask yourself this, why hasn't the IBT petitioned the NMB? The reason is they know they will loose the vote. The IBT wants to hold on to the FO pilots as long as they can and collect revenue, oops sorry, dues.

They believe we are direct violation of various parts of their CBA. The union has filed a grievance, but so far their all powerful CBA is not stopping the company from doing what it wants. They have demanded that we cease and desist on several things that we continue to do even after their grievance. Some of the requests in the grievance are laughable and unrealistic. They are just trying to pacify their members so it looks like they are doing something.

I understand the FO pilots are angry because they thought they were going to be flying our old 300 for the FO storefront. Were you told this by KR,your union, or was it just an assumption! On your website is says those flights wil be operated by JSLLC. Last time I checked none of your pilots have gone through training to fly 300s on that certificate.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

ProFracPilot - We will not remain separate, even if both pilot groups wanted to. Kenn doesn't want it (has stated so several times publicly), and OUR contract requires that there at least be a ruling by the NMB on the matter.

?Xactly.

KR may want it, but he doesn't have the authority to make it happen. We can operate on the same 135 certificate and still not get single carrier status until someone asks the NMB. KR isn't able to ask the NMB.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

How exactly does a single list save any money? We could all be on a single list and still operate the same way we do now.

It could save money.

Let's say FJ parks the 45s (just and example) and expand the FO side. FJ would furlough and FO would recall/hire. With single carrier pilots would move about as needed without the costs if furloughs and new hires.

Not sure how big a cost savings this would be, but could be some. I can't think of any other savings right now.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Your beyond help v1. Kill our union and our profession. I really could care less anymore. Look at the facts and educate yourself.

Again with the pathetic grammar? I'm still not understanding how I'm killing the profession by not supporting the 1108? Is it because I'm part of some of the highest paid Lear pilots on Earth? Because I have a decent schedule and nearly six weeks of vacation time? Is it because I have a fairly decent benefits package? I don't get it. Seems to me that FLOPs is the one bringing the industry down. And just because you consider me uneducated doesn't mean I haven't looked at the facts. But anyway, I highly doubt that you don't care anymore either. I suspect that you're not done spouting off. I suggest that you and I separate ourselves from this conversation going forward and wait until the next issue arise because you're not a rational person with whom one can have a rational discussion.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA et al
I don't know how you have so much free time on your hands. And talk about being played by management,didn't it take 5 years working for TWA in the '80's to make 30k?

 

[slowtation capt]

I for one am tired of the FO pilots holding the threat of their crappy union over our heads.

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.
Believe me, Kenn didn't hand anything over
For someone that just bought back a company, that he got thrown out the door of, on the brink of shutting the doors
Why did it still take 2+ yrs for us to get a contract.
Kenn wanted us to get a pay raise, his idea, bring back the SFO rat program.

If you knew how we were treated before the CBA, if you knew the very small things throughout the CBA that have personally made my life for the better everysingle day.

I do not believe the IBT is the answer to everything in the world
I think the MEC has had their up's and down's

I can tell you, for me, the last 4 yrs under the CBA has been a heaven sent for me and many others.
It's not because I have anything to worry about.
I have never been called in for a CGF1 arrival, I don't complain, unneccesarily write up airplanes, etc........

The Union might come with a name of IBT Local 1108
But...
The Real Union is the Pilot's

So, I'm getting sick of hearing it get called our crappy union.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.
Believe me, Kenn didn't hand anything over
For someone that just bought back a company, that he got thrown out the door of, on the brink of shutting the doors
Why did it still take 2+ yrs for us to get a contract.
Kenn wanted us to get a pay raise, his idea, bring back the SFO rat program.

If you knew how we were treated before the CBA, if you knew the very small things throughout the CBA that have personally made my life for the better everysingle day.

I do not believe the IBT is the answer to everything in the world
I think the MEC has had their up's and down's

I can tell you, for me, the last 4 yrs under the CBA has been a heaven sent for me and many others.
It's not because I have anything to worry about.
I have never been called in for a CGF1 arrival, I don't complain, unneccesarily write up airplanes, etc........

The Union might come with a name of IBT Local 1108
But...
The Real Union is the Pilot's

So, I'm getting sick of hearing it get called our crappy union.

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

 

[dime line]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Man you have to be managements golden pilot.
There are 10% hard core Magment, 10% hard core union, and 80% all the rest of the pilots. You have to be in the top 1-2% of hard cor mgnt

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Man you have to be managements golden pilot.
There are 10% hard core Magment, 10% hard core union, and 80% all the rest of the pilots. You have to be in the top 1-2% of hard cor mgnt

And would that put you in the top 1-2% if the hard core union pushers?

 

[dime line]

And would that put you in the top 1-2% if the hard core union pushers?

Your on a much more intense playing field than me.

 

[slowtation capt]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Your absolutely correct, I did say that, and I still mean it.
The reason. To get away from the stigma of the big bad IBT
But in the end it's still the pilots that make the union.

You can argue that ALPA took all those things
I could argue that it was the courts during bankruptcy protection and the greedy CEO's that cut everything while still retaining their multi-million dollar incentive packages.

Now, are you going to answer my questions

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.

 

[squawk]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Under bankruptcy, all contracts and leases are open in the process. A union could have a 50 year old agreement that has evolved through collective bargaining, but it is not bankrupt proof.

 

[Praetorian]

Well we're being told differently. If we vote out the union we are being told there will be an option to stay separate. Nobody has guaranteed that, but they are saying it is "possible if that's what you want." KR has definitely not said to us that he wants one pilot group. That would have been noticed for sure.

Who is telling you this?

As far as what KR has said, didn't you listen to his presentation, where he said, "we will definitely put these two groups together"?

 

[Praetorian]

KR may want it, but he doesn't have the authority to make it happen. We can operate on the same 135 certificate and still not get single carrier status until someone asks the NMB. KR isn't able to ask the NMB.

So on one hand you don't want a union, but on the other hand you are counting on the union to keep the pilot groups seperate?

 

[Praetorian]

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.
Believe me, Kenn didn't hand anything over
For someone that just bought back a company, that he got thrown out the door of, on the brink of shutting the doors
Why did it still take 2+ yrs for us to get a contract.
Kenn wanted us to get a pay raise, his idea, bring back the SFO rat program.

If you knew how we were treated before the CBA, if you knew the very small things throughout the CBA that have personally made my life for the better everysingle day.

I do not believe the IBT is the answer to everything in the world
I think the MEC has had their up's and down's

I can tell you, for me, the last 4 yrs under the CBA has been a heaven sent for me and many others.
It's not because I have anything to worry about.
I have never been called in for a CGF1 arrival, I don't complain, unneccesarily write up airplanes, etc........

The Union might come with a name of IBT Local 1108
But...
The Real Union is the Pilot's

So, I'm getting sick of hearing it get called our crappy union.

Well said brother.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Your on a much more intense playing field than me.

We at FJ have more to lose.