IBT 1108 Executive Board Announcement

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.
Believe me, Kenn didn't hand anything over
For someone that just bought back a company, that he got thrown out the door of, on the brink of shutting the doors
Why did it still take 2+ yrs for us to get a contract.
Kenn wanted us to get a pay raise, his idea, bring back the SFO rat program.

If you knew how we were treated before the CBA, if you knew the very small things throughout the CBA that have personally made my life for the better everysingle day.

I do not believe the IBT is the answer to everything in the world
I think the MEC has had their up's and down's

I can tell you, for me, the last 4 yrs under the CBA has been a heaven sent for me and many others.
It's not because I have anything to worry about.
I have never been called in for a CGF1 arrival, I don't complain, unneccesarily write up airplanes, etc........

The Union might come with a name of IBT Local 1108
But...
The Real Union is the Pilot's

So, I'm getting sick of hearing it get called our crappy union.

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

 

[dime line]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Man you have to be managements golden pilot.
There are 10% hard core Magment, 10% hard core union, and 80% all the rest of the pilots. You have to be in the top 1-2% of hard cor mgnt

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Man you have to be managements golden pilot.
There are 10% hard core Magment, 10% hard core union, and 80% all the rest of the pilots. You have to be in the top 1-2% of hard cor mgnt

And would that put you in the top 1-2% if the hard core union pushers?

 

[dime line]

And would that put you in the top 1-2% if the hard core union pushers?

Your on a much more intense playing field than me.

 

[slowtation capt]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Your absolutely correct, I did say that, and I still mean it.
The reason. To get away from the stigma of the big bad IBT
But in the end it's still the pilots that make the union.

You can argue that ALPA took all those things
I could argue that it was the courts during bankruptcy protection and the greedy CEO's that cut everything while still retaining their multi-million dollar incentive packages.

Now, are you going to answer my questions

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.

 

[squawk]

In the other thread you said that if we could find another union that is better and would represent you to let you know, but you don't know of one.

The reason you guys are with the IBT is no one else will represent you.

Having to take the only option if representation doesn't guarantee good representation. You take what you can get.

Actually, the real union is the $$$$ and lawyers behind the CBA that will force the company to follow it. The pilots only strength is the ability to strike. That is only allowed during contract negotiations after being released to self help by a mediator. Until then you only have the illusion of power.

Look at what the airlines have done to the ALPA carriers in the past 13 years. Pensions that were in their CBA, gone. Pilots with furlough protection in their CBA furloughed, pay slashed, scope clauses obliterated. All of this while under the protection of a CBA.

You guys live behind a false sense of security from the only crappy union that would represent you. Sorry to state the facts, but that is what they are.

Under bankruptcy, all contracts and leases are open in the process. A union could have a 50 year old agreement that has evolved through collective bargaining, but it is not bankrupt proof.

 

[Praetorian]

Well we're being told differently. If we vote out the union we are being told there will be an option to stay separate. Nobody has guaranteed that, but they are saying it is "possible if that's what you want." KR has definitely not said to us that he wants one pilot group. That would have been noticed for sure.

Who is telling you this?

As far as what KR has said, didn't you listen to his presentation, where he said, "we will definitely put these two groups together"?

 

[Praetorian]

KR may want it, but he doesn't have the authority to make it happen. We can operate on the same 135 certificate and still not get single carrier status until someone asks the NMB. KR isn't able to ask the NMB.

So on one hand you don't want a union, but on the other hand you are counting on the union to keep the pilot groups seperate?

 

[Praetorian]

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

Do you know the blood, sweat, and tears that we went through to get what we got in our CBA.
Believe me, Kenn didn't hand anything over
For someone that just bought back a company, that he got thrown out the door of, on the brink of shutting the doors
Why did it still take 2+ yrs for us to get a contract.
Kenn wanted us to get a pay raise, his idea, bring back the SFO rat program.

If you knew how we were treated before the CBA, if you knew the very small things throughout the CBA that have personally made my life for the better everysingle day.

I do not believe the IBT is the answer to everything in the world
I think the MEC has had their up's and down's

I can tell you, for me, the last 4 yrs under the CBA has been a heaven sent for me and many others.
It's not because I have anything to worry about.
I have never been called in for a CGF1 arrival, I don't complain, unneccesarily write up airplanes, etc........

The Union might come with a name of IBT Local 1108
But...
The Real Union is the Pilot's

So, I'm getting sick of hearing it get called our crappy union.

Well said brother.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Your on a much more intense playing field than me.

We at FJ have more to lose.

 

[slowtation capt]

We at FJ have more to lose.

Did you miss this, when you last logged on

Now, are you going to answer my questions

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

 

[Praetorian]

We at FJ have more to lose.

Like what? What do "have" that can't be taken away with an email from management?

The only thing you have to lose is the parent/child relationship you currently have with management.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Under bankruptcy, all contracts and leases are open in the process. A union could have a 50 year old agreement that has evolved through collective bargaining, but it is not bankrupt proof.

Not all of these changes were made under bankruptcy.

Look at the furloughs and pay cuts at AA in 2003. I know they aren't an ALPA carrier, but they are an example of a relatively strong union having to give away lots of the better parts of their contract while not in bankruptcy.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Did you miss this, when you last logged on

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak. During my career I gave read several contracts.

Send me the link again and when I have the free time I will look it over.

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule. One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8. He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday after Thanksgiving makes no sense. Unless you guys are way overstaffed your 8-7 schedule would make it difficult to cover varying demand. I know that isn't your problem, but it seems that it would reduce flexibility which is key in fractional aviation.

 

[slowtation capt]

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak.

Then don't judge something you don't know about

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule.

That might be a negative to you
To me your schedule would be a negative, 4,5,6 days on the road with only 3,4 off.

One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8.

Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.

He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

It is the seam period between schedules.
It was something that when sitting at a table working it out that nobody realized this is how it would play out.
However the company learned within a yr how to manipulate it to their full advantage.
The Union has all ready recognized this and has all ready made it a priority to fix next time

One of your outspoken union brothers
I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

I find it hard to understand why he couldn't give you an answer.
Everybody knows how it works, everybody knows why it is done.
It's been addressed multiple times by the pilots, by the union, etc.....

So again I tend to believe this was a made up conversation on your part, or you are embellishing certain facts of your conversation.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday

I agree that the 8/7 is a major turn off. But specifics like that don't really matter, since if a union does get voted in a new contract is written up and so all that stuff can change. might get better, might get worse.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Then don't judge something you don't know about



That might be a negative to you
To me your schedule would be a negative, 4,5,6 days on the road with only 3,4 off.



Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.



It is the seam period between schedules.
It was something that when sitting at a table working it out that nobody realized this is how it would play out.
However the company learned within a yr how to manipulate it to their full advantage.
The Union has all ready recognized this and has all ready made it a priority to fix next time



I find it hard to understand why he couldn't give you an answer.
Everybody knows how it works, everybody knows why it is done.
It's been addressed multiple times by the pilots, by the union, etc.....

So again I tend to believe this was a made up conversation on your part, or you are embellishing certain facts of your conversation.

The conversation was presented exactly as he said although the term "blend" does sound familiar so maybe he did use that term. I am unfamiliar with your bidding system, but he said there was nothing he could do about the 8-3-8 schedule. Are you saying this schedule is impossible to get?

I can't imagine having to leave my family for 8 days every time I went to work. 6 is long enough. You may enjoy your schedule, but to me it is a huge negative. The 7 days off sounds great, but not enough to outweigh the suck of 8 days on.

 

[slowtation capt]

The conversation was presented exactly as he said although the term "blend" does sound familiar so maybe he did use that term.

Where did I use the word "blend"

It is the seam period between schedules.

Are you saying this schedule is impossible to get?

Did you read;

Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.

I can't imagine having to leave my family for 8 days every time I went to work. 6 is long enough. You may enjoy your schedule, but to me it is a huge negative. The 7 days off sounds great, but not enough to outweigh the suck of 8 days on.

And I feel the same way about being home for 3,4,5 every time.
3 days isn't even time to unpack, get back on time, laundary, see the family

 

[DirtyBeech]

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak. During my career I gave read several contracts.

Send me the link again and when I have the free time I will look it over.

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule. One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8. He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday after Thanksgiving makes no sense. Unless you guys are way overstaffed your 8-7 schedule would make it difficult to cover varying demand. I know that isn't your problem, but it seems that it would reduce flexibility which is key in fractional aviation.

I think FJ quit crewing to demand and settled in on the crew to metal staffing unless that bad idea was quietly dropped.

 

[squawk]

Not all of these changes were made under bankruptcy.

Look at the furloughs and pay cuts at AA in 2003. I know they aren't an ALPA carrier, but they are an example of a relatively strong union having to give away lots of the better parts of their contract while not in bankruptcy.

That is why it is called collective bargaining. An agreement is just that, sometimes one party gains and the another loses. A union often makes concessions for the sake of job security. Having a place at the table is important in any event.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Yes TWA, I agree with you.
If I had to work with you for 8 days, it certainly would seen like too long.

 

[jetwash]

I can't imagine having to leave my family for 8 days every time I went to work. 6 is long enough. You may enjoy your schedule, but to me it is a huge negative. The 7 days off sounds great, but not enough to outweigh the suck of 8 days on.

That is why the Flex Pilots should contact the union and start giving their ideas as to what they would like in the next contract which will cover all of us.

You could always bid the 7/7 or tell the union negotiators you want a 6/4 option as well.

 

[The Architect]

Here's the link to Local 1108

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak. During my career I gave read several contracts.

Send me the link again and when I have the free time I will look it over.

Here you go:

To register for access go to the VUH website at http://forum.ibt1108.org, then follow the next several steps:

First and foremost, make sure you complete ALL fields on the registration page.
Again, your information will be kept confidential by Local 1108.
After you submit your registration, an email will be sent to the email address you provided. If you don?t receive it, check your SPAM/JUNK folder. YOU MUST click the link provided to validate your email address.
After clicking the link, a member of the IBT Local 1108 Communications Team will verify your information and grant your access. You will receive email notification when this is complete.

 

[ThePilotsFriend]

To all that are concerned,

Let me just start by saying that I have known Ken Ricci personally for 18 years. I know him not only thru business but also friendship. I recently had a flight with him and a lengthy conversation about the situation at hand. I expressed to him my feelings about how the Flight Options pilots not being treated fairly in all that is going on. Without saying to much, let me say this. If your a flight options pilot just set back and be patient because this is going to be a good thing for you when it's all finished. Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union. This is going to take time, it's not going to happen overnight. It's important to know that the time it will take is necessary for the plan to work. Once the union is successfully voted out the flex jet contracts and flying will be shifted over to you the Flight Options pilots. Once 60% of the Flex clients have been shifted over to Flight Options Ken will start the recall process of the furloughed pilots, once again building the pilot force. The business strategy behind this is the lower cost of labor on the Flight Options side. I also talked to him about the low pay at Options and he assured me that he is going to give a fair pay increase that both improves the lifestyle of the Flight Options pilot and makes for a sustainable business model. Ken expressed that the current pay at Flexjet is not sustainable and was one of the main reasons he was able to acquire the company. Ken believes that once 60% of the Flex flying is being conducted on the Flight Options side, the Flexjet crews can be reduced, he did not explain how this would be carried out. Ken seemed to think that this would be a three year business model but at the end of that time 93% of all the flying would be accomplished with Flight Options pilots. I think it's fair to get a pay raise that will support healthy business survivability at the same time bringing new aircraft to the Flight Options pilots. Ken seems to think that the new business model can be sustained with about 675 total pilots. If you take all of the current Options pilots and bring back all the ones on furlough you will still have room to keep 150 or so Flex pilots which is good news.

 

[luckydog]

To all that are concerned,

Let me just start by saying that I have known Ken Ricci personally for 18 years. I know him not only thru business but also friendship. I recently had a flight with him and a lengthy conversation about the situation at hand. I expressed to him my feelings about how the Flight Options pilots not being treated fairly in all that is going on. Without saying to much, let me say this. If your a flight options pilot just set back and be patient because this is going to be a good thing for you when it's all finished. Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union. This is going to take time, it's not going to happen overnight. It's important to know that the time it will take is necessary for the plan to work. Once the union is successfully voted out the flex jet contracts and flying will be shifted over to you the Flight Options pilots. Once 60% of the Flex clients have been shifted over to Flight Options Ken will start the recall process of the furloughed pilots, once again building the pilot force. The business strategy behind this is the lower cost of labor on the Flight Options side. I also talked to him about the low pay at Options and he assured me that he is going to give a fair pay increase that both improves the lifestyle of the Flight Options pilot and makes for a sustainable business model. Ken expressed that the current pay at Flexjet is not sustainable and was one of the main reasons he was able to acquire the company. Ken believes that once 60% of the Flex flying is being conducted on the Flight Options side, the Flexjet crews can be reduced, he did not explain how this would be carried out. Ken seemed to think that this would be a three year business model but at the end of that time 93% of all the flying would be accomplished with Flight Options pilots. I think it's fair to get a pay raise that will support healthy business survivability at the same time bringing new aircraft to the Flight Options pilots. Ken seems to think that the new business model can be sustained with about 675 total pilots. If you take all of the current Options pilots and bring back all the ones on furlough you will still have room to keep 150 or so Flex pilots which is good news.

I never can find my bull******************** flag when I need it!

 

[squawk]

I have seen disinformation before, but this one is a whopper.

 

[V1 Rotate]

To all that are concerned,

Let me just start by saying that I have known Ken Ricci personally for 18 years. I know him not only thru business but also friendship. I recently had a flight with him and a lengthy conversation about the situation at hand. I expressed to him my feelings about how the Flight Options pilots not being treated fairly in all that is going on. Without saying to much, let me say this. If your a flight options pilot just set back and be patient because this is going to be a good thing for you when it's all finished. Ken has a proven strategy that will secure the end of the union. This is going to take time, it's not going to happen overnight. It's important to know that the time it will take is necessary for the plan to work. Once the union is successfully voted out the flex jet contracts and flying will be shifted over to you the Flight Options pilots. Once 60% of the Flex clients have been shifted over to Flight Options Ken will start the recall process of the furloughed pilots, once again building the pilot force. The business strategy behind this is the lower cost of labor on the Flight Options side. I also talked to him about the low pay at Options and he assured me that he is going to give a fair pay increase that both improves the lifestyle of the Flight Options pilot and makes for a sustainable business model. Ken expressed that the current pay at Flexjet is not sustainable and was one of the main reasons he was able to acquire the company. Ken believes that once 60% of the Flex flying is being conducted on the Flight Options side, the Flexjet crews can be reduced, he did not explain how this would be carried out. Ken seemed to think that this would be a three year business model but at the end of that time 93% of all the flying would be accomplished with Flight Options pilots. I think it's fair to get a pay raise that will support healthy business survivability at the same time bringing new aircraft to the Flight Options pilots. Ken seems to think that the new business model can be sustained with about 675 total pilots. If you take all of the current Options pilots and bring back all the ones on furlough you will still have room to keep 150 or so Flex pilots which is good news.

If you really are that close to Kenn then maybe you should have his book editor scan your writing before you post next time. : )

 

[rsm]

Take your union, take your contact roll it up and stick it where the SUN DON'T SHINE!!!!!
Stupidity, that's exactly why a union wouldn't ever be voted in on the other side. Pure stupidity!!!

 

[993_Pilot]

Our direct contracts with management are as binding as your CBA.

We get a vote before any changes to our work rules.

HA HA HA, That's funny right there. You don't have a COLLECTIVE bargaining agreement, So all 400+ of you will have to defend your INDIVIDUAL employment agreements while splitting the cost of arbitration equally with management. Good luck with that.

Well we're being told differently. If we vote out the union we are being told there will be an option to stay separate. Nobody has guaranteed that, but they are saying it is "possible if that's what you want." KR has definitely not said to us that he wants one pilot group. That would have been noticed for sure.

Right. The impression I'm under is that if the NMB rules single carrier, and then we vote, and if that outcome is no union, then we stay separate like we are now. Separate hiring and all. I can't point to an exact quote from a meeting or slide, but that's the impression I'm under...

Try reading what what he said in AIN:
Ricci told AIN. "We're not asking for pay cuts, and we've tried to preserve salaries. Normally, we'd try to delay a single operating system, but we want [it], the sooner the better..."

Link: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ainalerts/2014-04-08/flight-options-flexjet-owner-aims-single-operation

 

[skanza]

One more thing to add you little prick. For some reason you feel slighted because you are not paid what you think you deserve. How many times have you been furloughed? How many union battles have you encountered? You want the top pay but have no track record! Yeah that's right I researched your post history and found exactly what I expected. A young kid from asa talking ******************** because he is not paid top notch. Go back to flying RJ200s for peanuts. We gave enough losers here trying to pull our profession down without your help. The world don't own you ******************** boy!

Interesting behaviour.
Perhaps you could read your words as shown above while looking in the mirror..