IBT 1108 Executive Board Announcement

[slowtation capt]

We at FJ have more to lose.

Did you miss this, when you last logged on

Now, are you going to answer my questions

I for one am tired of hearing you and others call my union crappy.

Have you read our full CBA, do you know everything about our CBA?

Or is it just the pay that you know about and choose to bash it?

 

[Praetorian]

We at FJ have more to lose.

Like what? What do "have" that can't be taken away with an email from management?

The only thing you have to lose is the parent/child relationship you currently have with management.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Under bankruptcy, all contracts and leases are open in the process. A union could have a 50 year old agreement that has evolved through collective bargaining, but it is not bankrupt proof.

Not all of these changes were made under bankruptcy.

Look at the furloughs and pay cuts at AA in 2003. I know they aren't an ALPA carrier, but they are an example of a relatively strong union having to give away lots of the better parts of their contract while not in bankruptcy.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Did you miss this, when you last logged on

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak. During my career I gave read several contracts.

Send me the link again and when I have the free time I will look it over.

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule. One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8. He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday after Thanksgiving makes no sense. Unless you guys are way overstaffed your 8-7 schedule would make it difficult to cover varying demand. I know that isn't your problem, but it seems that it would reduce flexibility which is key in fractional aviation.

 

[slowtation capt]

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak.

Then don't judge something you don't know about

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule.

That might be a negative to you
To me your schedule would be a negative, 4,5,6 days on the road with only 3,4 off.

One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8.

Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.

He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

It is the seam period between schedules.
It was something that when sitting at a table working it out that nobody realized this is how it would play out.
However the company learned within a yr how to manipulate it to their full advantage.
The Union has all ready recognized this and has all ready made it a priority to fix next time

One of your outspoken union brothers
I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

I find it hard to understand why he couldn't give you an answer.
Everybody knows how it works, everybody knows why it is done.
It's been addressed multiple times by the pilots, by the union, etc.....

So again I tend to believe this was a made up conversation on your part, or you are embellishing certain facts of your conversation.

 

[Club ORD FO]

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday

I agree that the 8/7 is a major turn off. But specifics like that don't really matter, since if a union does get voted in a new contract is written up and so all that stuff can change. might get better, might get worse.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Then don't judge something you don't know about



That might be a negative to you
To me your schedule would be a negative, 4,5,6 days on the road with only 3,4 off.



Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.



It is the seam period between schedules.
It was something that when sitting at a table working it out that nobody realized this is how it would play out.
However the company learned within a yr how to manipulate it to their full advantage.
The Union has all ready recognized this and has all ready made it a priority to fix next time



I find it hard to understand why he couldn't give you an answer.
Everybody knows how it works, everybody knows why it is done.
It's been addressed multiple times by the pilots, by the union, etc.....

So again I tend to believe this was a made up conversation on your part, or you are embellishing certain facts of your conversation.

The conversation was presented exactly as he said although the term "blend" does sound familiar so maybe he did use that term. I am unfamiliar with your bidding system, but he said there was nothing he could do about the 8-3-8 schedule. Are you saying this schedule is impossible to get?

I can't imagine having to leave my family for 8 days every time I went to work. 6 is long enough. You may enjoy your schedule, but to me it is a huge negative. The 7 days off sounds great, but not enough to outweigh the suck of 8 days on.

 

[slowtation capt]

The conversation was presented exactly as he said although the term "blend" does sound familiar so maybe he did use that term.

Where did I use the word "blend"

It is the seam period between schedules.

Are you saying this schedule is impossible to get?

Did you read;

Either you heard him wrong, he told you wrong, or you are making it up.
It's can only be scheduled as

8 on, 6 off
or
7 on, 4 off
or
6 or less on, 3 off.

I can't imagine having to leave my family for 8 days every time I went to work. 6 is long enough. You may enjoy your schedule, but to me it is a huge negative. The 7 days off sounds great, but not enough to outweigh the suck of 8 days on.

And I feel the same way about being home for 3,4,5 every time.
3 days isn't even time to unpack, get back on time, laundary, see the family

 

[DirtyBeech]

I have not. I don't have the time to read 300+ pages of lawyer speak. During my career I gave read several contracts.

Send me the link again and when I have the free time I will look it over.

One of the biggest negatives of your contract is the 8-7 schedule. One of your outspoken union brothers was complaining to me in PDK about his 8-3-8. He said it had something to do with the merging between bid periods. I asked why the contract allowed that and he didn't have an answer.

Your 8-7 schedule is much cheaper for airline vista, however a level pilot staffing throughout the year is bad for fractional flying. Having the same number of pilots available on a random Wednesday in June and the Sunday after Thanksgiving makes no sense. Unless you guys are way overstaffed your 8-7 schedule would make it difficult to cover varying demand. I know that isn't your problem, but it seems that it would reduce flexibility which is key in fractional aviation.

I think FJ quit crewing to demand and settled in on the crew to metal staffing unless that bad idea was quietly dropped.

 

[squawk]

Not all of these changes were made under bankruptcy.

Look at the furloughs and pay cuts at AA in 2003. I know they aren't an ALPA carrier, but they are an example of a relatively strong union having to give away lots of the better parts of their contract while not in bankruptcy.

That is why it is called collective bargaining. An agreement is just that, sometimes one party gains and the another loses. A union often makes concessions for the sake of job security. Having a place at the table is important in any event.