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IBT 1108 Executive Board Announcement

V1 Rotate

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I'm just the messenger but when I asked how they plan to make 20% I wasn't given a firm answer. Granted this was in December so maybe they didn't know exactly 100% then how they planned to achieve that but the source is about as high as you can get and it's fairly common knowledge out on the line that these are the numbers.
 

squawk

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I'm just the messenger but when I asked how they plan to make 20% I wasn't given a firm answer. Granted this was in December so maybe they didn't know exactly 100% then how they planned to achieve that but the source is about as high as you can get and it's fairly common knowledge out on the line that these are the numbers.

You are way out of your depth. You, like everyone else on the line, has no clue what is going on.
 

V1 Rotate

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You are way out of your depth. You, like everyone else on the line, has no clue what is going on.

You're right. I guess you put me in my place. If you read my post coherently you'd know that I said I was the messenger only. You think I'm just making up this stuff up??? The conversation took place with others present. It's up to you to believe what he or she told us that evening.
 

jetwash

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I'm just the messenger but when I asked how they plan to make 20% I wasn't given a firm answers.

Maybe by adjusting your pay just as FO did with our pay and benefits. Spending 30% less on labor will make the bottom line look good.

That is worry that the FO pilots have as well as the Flex pilots. Lets hope it doesn't come to that but the signs are not positive.
 

squawk

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jetwash: exactly right.
20% ROI would be achieved one of two ways-
overcharge the owners, or
you work more for less.

which one do you think?
 

wingsnthings

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Maybe by adjusting your pay just as FO did with our pay and benefits. Spending 30% less on labor will make the bottom line look good.

That is worry that the FO pilots have as well as the Flex pilots. Lets hope it doesn't come to that but the signs are not positive.

What signs?!?! I haven't seen any signs of good or bad?! Give me signs of what you have seen since the purchase of FJ that would lead to think we would get a paycut
 
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wingsnthings

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jetwash: exactly right.
20% ROI would be achieved one of two ways-
overcharge the owners, or
you work more for less.

which one do you think?

Or...when FO adopts the proven methods FJ has to make a profit, both store fronts will be money making machines!
 

BlueNose

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True but at some point they all sat down agreed to a plan that they all saw fit that would get them their 20% return. We were making 15% for Bombardier.

Nobody in this business makes 15% ROI, except maybe the caterers. 7-8% would be great for a frac. If they were making 15% Bombardier would never have sold them, no matter how tight cashflow is.
 

wingsnthings

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Nobody in this business makes 15% ROI, except maybe the caterers. 7-8% would be great for a frac. If they were making 15% Bombardier would never have sold them, no matter how tight cashflow is.

You FO guys seem to know everything....
 
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el raton

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You FO guys seem to know everything....

What they know best is how to stay mired in mediocrity. They can't get their head around the fact that flex has been successful for most of its existence and along with that success comes a culture they refuse to accept. Until out management gives us a reason not to work with them, we will do all we can to keep flex a continued success and that will be without the teamsters.

So you guys continue by spreading fear and propaganda to try and drag us down to your level.
 

squawk

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Nobody in this business makes 15% ROI, except maybe the caterers. 7-8% would be great for a frac. If they were making 15% Bombardier would never have sold them, no matter how tight cashflow is.
I think you are about right on the margins of 7-8%, and that would be attractive for investors, especially when you consider the plan as it is sketched out. FJ will be a growth and income company that could go public someday.
 

gret

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This I doubt. 20%? No way they expect that margin.

Sorry...20% is a low figure. Private equity firms, which DAC is, all have models that call for a 25%, or better, return expectations.

Depending on the fund size and investment strategy, a private equity firm may seek to exit its investments in 3-5 years in order to generate a multiple on invested capital of 2.0-4.0x and an internal rate of return (IRR) of around 20-30%.

 

BlueNose

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Sorry...20% is a low figure. Private equity firms, which DAC is, all have models that call for a 25%, or better, return expectations.
Depending on the fund size and investment strategy, a private equity firm may seek to exit its investments in 3-5 years in order to generate a multiple on invested capital of 2.0-4.0x and an internal rate of return (IRR) of around 20-30%.

That's a return measured at the sale, upon exiting the investment. That may well be what DAC aims to achieve, though there's not a very good track record of that in this sector of aviation (ask HIG, who had the same hopes when they bought FO from RTN, or even uncle Warren for that matter with NJA's historic returns). These guys are talking about past annual operating returns in the 15% range which, if true, would have make the company unaffordable for DAC. AAPL is in the low 20's, for Pete's sake; LUV has been 3-5%. KR only buys low, and with other people's money, and a company consistently returning 15% would be expensive. But then what do I know?

Past history would indicate that KR and his inner circle will do fine in the deal, outside investors not so much, and rank-and-file employees worst of all. But don't worry, Flex is special and I'm sure this time is different.

Old poker proberb: If after ten minutes at the table you do not know who the patsy is - you are the patsy.
 
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squawk

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I am fine with them making a load of money as long as I am well compensated and have a life. If they want to treat pilots any other way, I hope they go broke.
 

Club ORD FO

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Nobody in this business makes 15% ROI, except maybe the caterers. 7-8% would be great for a frac. If they were making 15% Bombardier would never have sold them, no matter how tight cashflow is.


Bombardier sold us because of the airplane order that was also bundled.
 

gret

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That's a return measured at the sale, upon exiting the investment. That may well be what DAC aims to achieve, though there's not a very good track record of that in this sector of aviation (ask HIG, who had the same hopes when they bought FO from RTN, or even uncle Warren for that matter with NJA's historic returns). These guys are talking about past annual operating returns in the 15% range which, if true, would have make the company unaffordable for DAC. AAPL is in the low 20's, for Pete's sake; LUV has been 3-5%. KR only buys low, and with other people's money, and a company consistently returning 15% would be expensive. But then what do I know?

Past history would indicate that KR and his inner circle will do fine in the deal, outside investors not so much, and rank-and-file employees worst of all. But don't worry, Flex is special and I'm sure this time is different.

Old poker proberb: If after ten minutes at the table you do not know who the patsy is - you are the patsy.


What is "annual operating returns"...and what is the 15% of? Is this suppose to be a percentage of sales, investment, or something else. If you are talking about dropping

IRR, or internal rate of return, is a calculation used to measure the total returns from an investment taking into account the period the returns were generated. It takes into account current cash flows, the proceeds upon disposition, and the life of the investment.
 

squawk

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What is "annual operating returns"...and what is the 15% of? Is this suppose to be a percentage of sales, investment, or something else. If you are talking about dropping

IRR, or internal rate of return, is a calculation used to measure the total returns from an investment taking into account the period the returns were generated. It takes into account current cash flows, the proceeds upon disposition, and the life of the investment.

Isn't Google wonderful
 

BlueNose

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What is "annual operating returns"...and what is the 15% of? Is this suppose to be a percentage of sales, investment, or something else. If you are talking about dropping

IRR, or internal rate of return, is a calculation used to measure the total returns from an investment taking into account the period the returns were generated. It takes into account current cash flows, the proceeds upon disposition, and the life of the investment.

Never mind.
 
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