IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[KigAir]

What baffles me is why anybody would want to do business with or be represented by a Hoffa.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

In the first statement, your understanding is wrong. There is a very high legal threshold to be met for trusteeship. The GP does have emergency powers for (i believe) 15 days of trusteeship, but that would require a disaster such as the eboard being arrested or a physical disaster that prevented the eboard form performing their duties. Since nothing like that was happening at 1108, the GP was FAR outside of his abilities and authority to attempt to do so.

As to deserving anything. The netjets pilots believe we are entitled to the 12 month loan that was negotiated. The rub is, if this sneak attack had been allowed to succeed the separation would have been delayed for 120 days and during that time the netjets pilots (who would still be in 1108) would have no access to ANY of their dues money since it would have now been controlled by the trustee. I'd like to see if anyone thinks a pilot who contributes dues to a union is not entitled to their own money while still a member....

From what I see, a change of leadership and a significant amount of monies involved would be a good enough reason to instill emergency trusteeship, but I'm not a lawyer and unless you are, both of our opinions are moot. No such dues are being denied from what I was told. There is an agreement for a loan, I can't imagine the MEC not complying with that. I can't speak to the check that is being referred to, I do not know about any such check. However, I could see the funds getting locked up in court should things head that way, and instead of 120 days it could be YEARS.


I've said just about all I can speak on from what I've been told here, fellas. All I can say is I can personally vouch for Ma Sli and Er Ma and that the FO pilot group, including those 2, have no intention of denying the NJA pilots any funds they are intitled to, and that what they did was done at the direction of the IBT National. Any toes that were stepped on in teh process were not done malitiously, and there is NO intent on the FO pilots to want to deny the NJA pilots any monies they are entitled to. If there were legal mis-steps, that's what lawyers are for to settle.

The bottom line here is that calling the FO pilots thieves is wrong. We don't want to steal anyone's money. We owe everything we have in our Union to the NJA pilots. Every pilot I know feels that way. We do not want to wrong our brothers and there is no intention on doing so. Any accusations of such are false and misguided.

 

[steelersrule74]

From what I am told, the IBT is not worried about what they did legally.

wow, you really have a high opinion of the IBT's abilities. Newsflash, there ain't no Mensa folks working in washington. The reality of the IBT is that any locals that are successful enjoy that success IN SPITE of the IBT, not because of it. As I've said in other posts, use what little they offer to your advantage - but if FLOPS pilots think the IBT are going to produce results for ya,.............yeesh.

oh, and perhaps instead of passing on 'what you've been told' - you might read the bylaws, separation agreement and find out for yourself.

 

[gunfyter]

Slave,

With the 1108 in TRUSTEESHIP as some believe Hoffa had a right to do ... How could the new 1108 e-Board ensure the loan agreement would be complied with? It would be all up to Hoffa.

 

[steelersrule74]

The bottom line here is that calling the FO pilots thieves is wrong. We don't want to steal anyone's money. We owe everything we have in our Union to the NJA pilots. Every pilot I know feels that way. We do not want to wrong our brothers and there is no intention on doing so. Any accusations of such are false and misguided.

fair enough, we know the pilots at FLOPS are not responsible for this - only a few misguided individuals..

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Why did the names on the accounts have to be changed on Monday when the leadership was not transfered until Friday?

That's a question to ask the IBT National office. From what I was told, it was their decision.

Why were the elected offficials of the 1108, their term ended on Friday, not told the names were being changed on Monday?

Perhaps to keep unwarranted transactions from happening. If I were the CEO of a company and I knew the accountant at an affiliate company I owned who had access to all of my money was leaving soon, as a SAFETY PRECAUTION I would have the accountant's name removed from the account before the accountant left, "just in case". I can't speak for Hoffa, but perhaps he felt the same way. It was his decision, you'd have to ask him.

Perhaps a better question is, what would the people who did not any longer have access to those funds would have done with that money on Thursday that they are so upset about that they didn't get to do? They are only entitled to the monies outlined in section B.1 and 3 of the agreement, and I do not think the IBT will deny it. They will get that money. So again. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Slave,

With the 1108 in TRUSTEESHIP as some believe Hoffa had a right to do ... How could the new 1108 e-Board ensure the loan agreement would be complied with? It would be all up to Hoffa.

Correct. So what? Is the agreement not signed? Why would he NOT comply with it? If he didn't, he'd be looking at a law suit he couldn't win. I have not seen anyone at the IBT state they are going to deny any funds in the agreement.

 

[gunfyter]

What did Hoffa do to local 2000?

This is why NJASAP was ready for IBT to pull this.



When considering the abilities of the National IBT vs the NJASAP leadership...

realize IBT recommended NJ pilots accept the 2004 TA, calling it The richest contract in memory. A TA far worse even adjusted for inflation than what FLOPS management is offering you guys now.

Our leadership is more capable that the IBT. Smarter and better.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

What baffles me is why anybody would want to do business with or be represented by a Hoffa.

Hmmm. Well over a million people last time I checked. Including the Net Jets pilots for what, almost 3 decades? I personally talked to THREE of your NJASAP leadership members when they were IBT 1108 e-board members during the last elections, and guess who they personally endorsed? Hoffa. They could not of course legally endorse them in writing, but they endorsed Hoffa personally.

The Teamsters make a lot of sense for the Flight Options pilots. I do not have the time to discuss the many ways that is so, but suffice it to say, that a pilot group our size needs a national organization. Your pilot group decided they did not anymore. The NJASAP pilots disagreed and split away YESTERDAY.

That doesn't make the teamsters not a good deal for others Mr. Armchair Quarterback.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

What did Hoffa do to local 2000?

This is why NJASAP was ready for IBT to pull this.



When considering the abilities of the National IBT vs the NJASAP leadership...

realize IBT recommended NJ pilots accept the 2004 TA, calling it The richest contract in memory. A TA far worse even adjusted for inflation than what FLOPS management is offering you guys now.

Our leadership is more capable that the IBT. Smarter and better.

Oh my god! You said so, so it must be true! Here's a cookie.

 

[steelersrule74]

They will get that money. So again. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

the point that you seem to be missing is: NJASAP now already has the money as of July 11. It will be paid back to 1108 over 12 months per the agreement. We believe this was an attempt to divert the money so that was no longer available to loan to NJASAP per the agreement.

But let me ask this instead. we can go round and round about bank accounts but so far it seems to me the FLOPS pilots are missing the most disturbing part of this whole debacle.

Your current President and Sec/Treas were presented a letter of trusteeship (illegal, of course) and told that 1108 was now in control of trustee Bill Moore. hmmmm, if i were at FLOPS i'd wonder:

WHY DID THEY NOT SCREAM BLOODY MURDER?
WHY DID THEY ALLOW CONTROL OF YOUR NEW LOCAL TO GO TO WASHINGTON?
WHY DID THEY NOT SEEK IMMEDIATE LEGAL COUNSEL TO PROTECT THE PILOTS AT FLOPS FROM BILL MOORE?

your new leaders were presented with a bogus document that stripped your Eboard of it's ability to function - and they said okey dokey. Now, if y'all can't find the issue with that - i got nothing else for ya........

 

[Options_SLAVE]

the point that you seem to be missing is: NJASAP now already has the money as of July 11. It will be paid back to 1108 over 12 months per the agreement. We believe this was an attempt to divert the money so that was no longer available to loan to NJASAP per the agreement.

But let me ask this instead. we can go round and round about bank accounts but so far it seems to me the FLOPS pilots are missing the most disturbing part of this whole debacle.

Your current President and Sec/Treas were presented a letter of trusteeship (illegal, of course) and told that 1108 was now in control of trustee Bill Moore. hmmmm, if i were at FLOPS i'd wonder:

WHY DID THEY NOT SCREAM BLOODY MURDER?
WHY DID THEY ALLOW CONTROL OF YOUR NEW LOCAL TO GO TO WASHINGTON?
WHY DID THEY NOT SEEK IMMEDIATE LEGAL COUNSEL TO PROTECT THE PILOTS AT FLOPS FROM BILL MOORE?

your new leaders were presented with a bogus document that stripped your Eboard of it's ability to function - and they said okey dokey. Now, if y'all can't find the issue with that - i got nothing else for ya........

YOU say it was illegal. Where's your law degree from? IBT's lawyers say differently. Sorry, but I'm going to take their word over yours. Even if you do have a law degree, which I doubt you do.

I see the IBT National and the FO leadership maintaining control of IBT 1108 funds in the hands of IBT 1108 pilots, and NJASAP pilots who no longer are a part of the 1108 who have a feef with that. If what you say is true and the NJASAP pilots GOT the money (which is news to me) then the agreement is fulfilled, what is there to b!tch about, unless t

 

[Options_SLAVE]

the point that you seem to be missing is: NJASAP now already has the money as of July 11. It will be paid back to 1108 over 12 months per the agreement. We believe this was an attempt to divert the money so that was no longer available to loan to NJASAP per the agreement.

But let me ask this instead. we can go round and round about bank accounts but so far it seems to me the FLOPS pilots are missing the most disturbing part of this whole debacle.

Your current President and Sec/Treas were presented a letter of trusteeship (illegal, of course) and told that 1108 was now in control of trustee Bill Moore. hmmmm, if i were at FLOPS i'd wonder:

WHY DID THEY NOT SCREAM BLOODY MURDER?
WHY DID THEY ALLOW CONTROL OF YOUR NEW LOCAL TO GO TO WASHINGTON?
WHY DID THEY NOT SEEK IMMEDIATE LEGAL COUNSEL TO PROTECT THE PILOTS AT FLOPS FROM BILL MOORE?

your new leaders were presented with a bogus document that stripped your Eboard of it's ability to function - and they said okey dokey. Now, if y'all can't find the issue with that - i got nothing else for ya........

YOU say it was illegal. Where's your law degree from? IBT's lawyers say differently. Sorry, but I'm going to take their word over yours. Even if you do have a law degree, which I doubt you do.

I see the IBT National and the FO leadership maintaining control of IBT 1108 funds in the hands of IBT 1108 pilots, and NJASAP pilots who no longer are a part of the 1108 who have a feef with that. If what you say is true and the NJASAP pilots GOT the money (which is news to me) then the agreement is fulfilled, what is there to b!tch about, unless there was some alterior motive regarding OTHER funds?

No one has yet been able to prove that the FO MEC was trying to "steal" anything. CONTROL was maintained of accounts in the Local. At the direction of the GP. NJA pilots will get whatever funds they are entitled to. FO pilots and their MEC are NOT thieves. If the NJASAP leadership pilots have a problem with how things happened, they should talk to Washington, but calling our pilots thieves is quite frankly immature and assinine, and causing unwarranted grief amongst our pilots (both pilot groups) over semantic details. No entitlements were EVER going to be denied by the FO pilots to the NJA pilots. FINI

 

[CastofThousands]

the point that you seem to be missing is: NJASAP now already has the money as of July 11. It will be paid back to 1108 over 12 months per the agreement. We believe this was an attempt to divert the money so that was no longer available to loan to NJASAP per the agreement.

But let me ask this instead. we can go round and round about bank accounts but so far it seems to me the FLOPS pilots are missing the most disturbing part of this whole debacle.

Your current President and Sec/Treas were presented a letter of trusteeship (illegal, of course) and told that 1108 was now in control of trustee Bill Moore. hmmmm, if i were at FLOPS i'd wonder:

WHY DID THEY NOT SCREAM BLOODY MURDER?
WHY DID THEY ALLOW CONTROL OF YOUR NEW LOCAL TO GO TO WASHINGTON?
WHY DID THEY NOT SEEK IMMEDIATE LEGAL COUNSEL TO PROTECT THE PILOTS AT FLOPS FROM BILL MOORE?

your new leaders were presented with a bogus document that stripped your Eboard of it's ability to function - and they said okey dokey. Now, if y'all can't find the issue with that - i got nothing else for ya........

And, the NetJets pilots made sure the IBT couldn't impose trusteeship as part of the separation agreement to protect both the NetJets and Flight Options pilots autonomy - but the new Flight Options Executive Board picked their new "slut" when they had a very strong relationship with the NetJets pilots.

The Teamsters tried to break the agreement. The Flight Options leaders helped the Teamsters in that underhanded effort. And, the much wiser and more seasoned NetJets 1108/NJASAP leaders said ... screw you both; we got this and good luck in your new relationship.

I still can't believe that's what the Flight Options leaders chose to do - they couldn't have made a worse tactical decision - ethics aside.

 

[steelersrule74]

sigh.....to quote myself.

Now, if y'all can't find the issue with that - i got nothing else for ya